New MMBA Trail Guide!

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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby ChrisInYpsi » August 31st, 2013, 9:13 pm

The new Trail Guide has been incredibly helpful for me. I've been trying to ride as many new-to-me trails as possible this year, and the Trail Guide has made things quite easy. Fantastic resource!

I'm preparing to ride the Hillsdale College trail this weekend, and I noticed that the trail description looks to be copied erroneously from Highland. Not sure who might author a "correct" description, but here are a few resources I googled that might help:
- https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTr ... aleCollege
- http://www.hillsdalecollegian.com/2012/ ... ke-trails/ (there is a map in this article that could be used in the Trail Guide)
- http://www.hillsdalecollegian.com/wp-co ... rk-Map.jpg (direct link to the map from the above article)
- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=109728
- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113529
Perhaps at a minimum we could update the Facebook link, add the map, and list the mileage?

Thanks again for developing the Trail Guide!
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby RickPlite » August 31st, 2013, 9:48 pm

the WMMBA will be adding all the chapter trails into the IMBA MTB Project site, I think it is a great idea, we just need folks to enter all the trails in Michigan and then the WORLD. :-)
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby largemelon » September 10th, 2013, 10:26 am

As "Critter7r" indicated, I also get the LOADING RESOURCES message on the trail guide that never goes away. I am on IE9 and have a pretty fast Internet connection. I have been able to get to the guide previously but lately haven't had any luck.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby UselessPickles » September 10th, 2013, 10:53 am

Start with this: viewtopic.php?p=810100#p810100

And let me know if you are able to find any indications of IE9 reporting an error on the page.
My guess would be that you have some kind of script blocker plugin that doesn't integrate into the browser well enough to allow the page to be aware that javascript is disabled.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby UselessPickles » September 10th, 2013, 11:04 am

I think I figured it out. There's an extra comma at the end of a list in the code somewhere that all modern browsers process without error. I bet you have "compatibility view" enabled. Starting with IE8, Microsoft decided that it should allow you to enter a mode in the browser that intentionally re-introduces all of the horrible bugs of previous versions of IE, plus a few more just for good measure. We we refer to it with hatred as "incompatibility view".

Try clicking this icon next to the address bar: http://services.lexblog.com/files/2013/05/ie8_compatibility.jpg

(BTW - why is the IMG bbcode tag disabled now? I wanted to embed the above URL as an image in this post)

I'll fix the root cause of this bug sometime soon and also add something that will attempt to force IE to avoid "compatibility view" by default, but unfortunately, I do not have absolute control over this. No matter what I do, it's still possible for you or a system admin to configure IE settings that will make IE use "compatibility view", or even emulate a prior version of IE (which introduces new bugs as well that didn't really exist in prior versions). It's a big mess that I absolutely hate and makes me want to drop a nuke on Microsoft.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby largemelon » September 11th, 2013, 10:28 am

Thanks for the information. I removed the check mark under "display all websites in compatibility view" and the trail guide appeared with no delay. Thanks again.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby UselessPickles » September 30th, 2013, 5:10 pm

With that change to your compatibility view settings, the entire internet might suddenly become better for you :)

The IE8 Compatibility View bug has been fixed. The trail guide will now load without errors in IE8 Compatibility View, but be warned that it looks like garbage and has several quirky issues, but is generally usable. I will not waste any time trying to fix any non-critical issues in Compatibility View.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby 2slo2endo » March 3rd, 2014, 2:18 pm

All I want from a trail map is to know which way to turn at each intersection on a trail I am unfamiliar with. Those days when you try a new trail on Saturday morning, and have to be home by 2... an hour driving, a couple hours riding turns into twice that 'cause you got involved in an extra loop... Which leads to more politics on your next ride 'cause you missed dinner with the neighbors! Downloadable gpx data is closer to what I want - I belive... then I can come to an intersection, pull out the gpx or smartphone, and make an educated choice. Paper maps lose don't convey a specific location too well sometimes. GPX data would be a nice backup to have with you.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby UselessPickles » March 3rd, 2014, 2:33 pm

If we had GPX data for the trails, it would be easy to make them accessible via the Trail Guide. Unfortunately, we don't have GPX data for the trails, and creating GPX data for trails is way beyond the scope of this project. Turn-by-turn directions would be complicated by trails with optional loops/sections, bi-directional sections, etc. How do we know whether you want to turn right or continue straight?

Steve does a lot of work mapping his local trails in OpenStreetMap. I wonder if it's possible to easily export any of that data into a useful GPX file that we could make available for download. Can a GPX file be used to just generically render trail/road segments on a GPS device, or is it limited to representing directional point-to-point routes?
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby c0nsumer » March 3rd, 2014, 2:39 pm

UselessPickles wrote:If we had GPX data for the trails, it would be easy to make them accessible via the Trail Guide. Unfortunately, we don't have GPX data for the trails, and creating GPX data for trails is way beyond the scope of this project. Turn-by-turn directions would be complicated by trails with optional loops/sections, bi-directional sections, etc. How do we know whether you want to turn right or continue straight?

Steve does a lot of work mapping his local trails in OpenStreetMap. I wonder if it's possible to easily export any of that data into a useful GPX file that we could make available for download. Can a GPX file be used to just generically render trail/road segments on a GPS device, or is it limited to representing directional point-to-point routes?


There's one fundamental problem with GPX files... As far as I've been able to ascertain, they can only contain one segment recording[1]. Thus, a park with more than one single-line route will become multiple files, etc.

A much better solution for 2slo2endo is to use a mapping system on his phone that includes trail data. I'd advise finding something that displays OpenStreetMap or Google Maps data, and using whatever shows the MTB trails at the location where you'll be riding. Be warned that most MTB trails are not (yet) mapped in these, though.

[1] While I have encountered this problem, I don't know for sure if it's a GPX 1.0 / GPX 1.1 issue or an implementation issue. Nonetheless, it was a problem that I've experienced.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby davedejonge » March 3rd, 2014, 5:00 pm

http://mmba.org/trail-guide/?trail=24&center=42.562192%2C-83.579382&zoom=16

I've mapped out much of loop 4 in Proud Lake using the Google Maps map maker and I think it would be a great fix for the question posed. It can allow an overlay of the trails visible on a smart phone or ect and would allow for display of your current location on the trail.

The issue I found with implementing this is that you have to wait for your trail edits to be "approved" by google or another user. not sure of what all needs to happen, but, if we had a way to approve each others entries it might make the process go quicker.

If you look at the trail guide for proud lake you can see the loop 4 track that I drew out, none of the side routes and shortcuts show yet ( i didn't add them). Does anyone else know the process more in detail? Looks like someone else added part of the kensington connector..
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby davedejonge » March 3rd, 2014, 5:02 pm

Okay, check that, I can see the kensington connector trail on my phone, but not my loop 4 edits... ?????
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby c0nsumer » March 3rd, 2014, 5:03 pm

davedejonge wrote:The issue I found with implementing this is that you have to wait for your trail edits to be "approved" by google or another user. not sure of what all needs to happen, but, if we had a way to approve each others entries it might make the process go quicker.

If you look at the trail guide for proud lake you can see the loop 4 track that I drew out, none of the side routes and shortcuts show yet ( i didn't add them). Does anyone else know the process more in detail? Looks like someone else added part of the kensington connector..


Frustration with this, and a way to legally pull data back out and use it in other similarly open projects (eg: all of the CRAMBA trail maps that I've made) are why I tend to stick with editing the OpenStreetMap data set and not Google Maps.
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby c0nsumer » March 3rd, 2014, 5:05 pm

davedejonge wrote:Okay, check that, I can see the kensington connector trail on my phone, but not my loop 4 edits... ?????


The tile set (literally the squares of map graphics that are displayed when you view the map) probably haven't been rendered yet. The short answer is "wait, they will".
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River Bends Park Co-Trail Coordinator
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Re: New MMBA Trail Guide!

Postby 2slo2endo » March 4th, 2014, 2:26 pm

I see your point, but still would like at least a basic route for new (to me) trails... It appears that anyone can post on mtbproject.com. After looking at a couple routes there, I see a few michigan trails with GPS data that looks good, and is overlaid on existing trail data - I looked at stoney for example. I think that could provide enough data for what I am looking for as it grows. NOt such a big issue for urban trails, but I would not attempt the high country pathway without both a gps route AND paper maps... you would not want to get lost there.
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