First Time Cross-Country Skier

[balexander87]

So I finally got out and gave cross-country skiing a try! Wow! What a blast! Went to Love Creek Park and Nature Center in Berrien Springs since it was so close and had rentals. It was my first time, so I've nothing to compare it to, but it seemed like a really, really nice place. Not sure how the groomed trails compare to other places, but they worked for me. Might have to look into purchasing a set of my own skis! Perhpas a WTB ad in the classified??

Any tips from more experience skiers? Good trails in Southwestern/Western MI? If I do decide to get my own pair, what kinds of things should I look for? Might try to find a used pair if it's worthwhile. I guess I did classic skiing, is there a general consensus about it compared to skate skiing? Any and all info is welcome and appreciated!

Cheers!

[Askel]

Skate is fun. If you have easy access to a place to skate ski, it's worth a try. It can be faster and I really enjoy the sort of zen like rhythms of it.

The learning curves are very different though. Almost anyone can go out for classic ski "shuffle" and have a good time. Even the most basic skate techniques can easily befuddle people. Lessons are a worthwhile investment.

Looking to do any racing at all? That'll kind of decide which direction you go for equipment....

[balexander87]

Thanks for the input! I don't really think I'll ever do any racing. I'd just want something that was good quality and would last me a long time. I might be interested in some more "backcountry" type skiing. Not sure yet though. In any case, a big motivator is most likely the cardio. Haha, I thought I was in decent shape before yesterday...after just a few miles with those skis, I know now that I am not in any kind of shape at all!!

I'm relatively new to Michigan, so I'm really excited to find something that lets me get out and really take advantage of the opportunities this area provides. I've never lived somewhere where skiing in any form was so accessible!

Love Creek only has classic skis for rent. Maybe my next outing will be to a spot that has skate skis and lessons! Skating certainly looks very fluid and enjoyable.

[Mack]

You think classic is a good cardio. Wait till you try skating.

[barrybs]

Love Creek is very nice. Another good place near there is Madeline Bertrand in Niles: http://www.berriencounty.org/parks/?dept=1&pid=189

If you want to try some back-country nordic go over to Warren Dunes or Grand Mere State Parks on Lake Michigan. Start on the inland side of the parks in the forested part of the dunes. You can't always get to the shoreline as the sand mixes in with the snow. The "mix line" is really pretty and there are some gorgeous views of the lake and dunes.

Barry

[Askel]

I might be interested in some more "backcountry" type skiing.

You can easily go completely off the deep end with backcountry equipment if you start chasing the big hills for turns, but if you just want to step out of the tracks for a bit and explore on your own, I really like the nordic cruising style skis like the Rossignol Evo series. They fit in groomed tracks, but the shorter lengths and little bit of sidecut makes them easy to ski outside the tracks as well. You end up giving up a little bit of speed, but it's worth the sacrifice to me.

And yeah, skiing in the dunes is still some my most favorite off trail backcountry skiing. Wish we had more western LP style dune territory up here.

[Bcar]

I just got a pair of skate skis and it rocks! went out yesterday for first time, dont think I'll be doing much classic unless its BC. take a look at classic skis that have 3/4 length metal edges, wont be as fast as the standards, but you'll not die doing down if conditions are sketchy esp going downhill. and then get some skate skis. check out ebay, goodwill stores etc, you'll find a TON of deals on xc gear, maybe not skate, but at least some classic stuff youll get into for <100 and never have to worry about breaking.

[Scott_Lobbestael]

So I pulled out my old skinny classics and realized, I need to replace them with a set of skate style and BC (after much reading on this site, and my interest rekindling). There is no end to this equipment needed: waxless, metal edged BC seem to be the go-to, easy ski style of choice. Skate skis on the other hand, seem to need special groomed trails, but offer fun and enjoyment above classic for many or most people. I am close to Hudson Mills Metropark, and I know they have trails, but I'm not sure if they offer skating. Do skating style skis have the ability to be used in classic style or is that a really specialized ski? I've never tried it, even though I grew up skating 7 days a week playing hockey. I am thinking a BC ski for the fields directly around me, and skating for groomed trails. I am roughly 6' and 168 lbs sans clothing. How long should my BC skis be? I would also like to ski the Poto with them.

[sisu]

Scott, you need skate-specific skis for skating. You also need a groomed course for skating--the closest to you would be Huron Meadows near Brighton. I hear they rent gear, but I'm not sure if they rent skating gear--give 'em a call.

[Scott_Lobbestael]

I went to Huron Meadows Monday to try the skating ski thing. Wow, it was fun! It was also a great workout, and the rental stuff was actually new equipment in great condition. It cost only $10 for the rental and 4 hours of skiing. Everyone we ran into there were friendly and helpful, so it was a great experience.

[JeffOYB]

HM is basically the only place within 150 miles that grooms for skating.

Skating is a blast, but so is classic. It's all glide and all about glide.

Your aerobic limit is your limit. Same for classic as for skating. Well, maybe classic does like a bit more hills.

A set of Rossi EVO type skis is really the mt-bike of skis. They are torsionally stiff and a bit shorter. Great for handling technical downhills. Skis with metal edges compare to full-sus bikes, pretty much. But the new Fischer Silent Spiders (funny name!) are edged yet still pretty lively.

We have tons of challenging, scenic trails around the southern MI region making a mid-width nowax ski your best bet. Midlength EVOish is sensible if you wanna try Potto. You can even Tele with the EVO's.

On 1/20 we'll have the Potto Raid -- ski it at whatever pace and join the potluck bonfire afterward. Pads and helmet aren't a bad idea.

Full-length waxables are fastest by far. I always make sure to have a pair. : ) But when it's slushy or you just don't want to fuss. Or if you'll be out for hours and the temps will keep changing then nowax is dandy. Technical trails like a shorter ski.

6-foot skiers want a 210 for max speed, but feel free to drop shorter for more control (midlengths are designed shorter).

It's easier for a beginner to go faster with skating. At expert level the difference is more like 15%. At WC level the diff is 10%.

As for rhythm -- it's all a dance. Skating certainly isn't any more dancey than Classic. The trail determines a lot of it. Those who get into the subtleties tend to go for Classic, so there's that. But the pro's tend to do 'em 50-50. Classic is a bit more aerobic -- better for fast tempo training -- and for high cadence cycling simulation -- skating has a bit more power, slower tempo.

Lessons will help anyone go twice as fast twice as easy with either mode. Lessons get you stable much faster so you can apply yourself much more. Once your skills are up you can get twice the workout. Twice the speed.

Going up to the HQ in Roscommon and demo'ing a half dozen types of skis is good fun. I find that even the allrounder midlength feel quite different between brands and models. (And so far to me the turqoise EVO Glades seem best but the blue Tours have the rep. The red Actions are a bit narrow for allroundering -- but fast for packed trails!)

[TheyCallMeBruce]

HM is basically the only place within 150 miles that grooms for skating.

Indepencence Oaks also has a groomed skate lane - best place I have tried in SE Mich.

Skating is a blast, but so is classic. It's all glide and all about glide.

+1

[balexander87]

So I've been enjoying following this thread and all the great info it contains. Thanks to everyone for the great contributions! I noticed a brief mention of "tele" skiing. After a little googling, I believe I may have found the perfect solution. See, I've been wanting to get into cross-country skiing since it's so accessible here, but I also enjoy downhill and the idea of backcountry skiing. However, I don't really have the money to sink into three different setups. Enter telemark! Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's one set of skis to do all three, right? I'm sure it's a case of jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, but that's fine with me. I'm not looking to go crazy with any one. I just want something I can hit the dunes with, take on groomed trails, and avoid the rental charge when I go to a "big" hill.

Now the next question, if I'm a 5'11", 170lb guy and I want to find an older, used (i.e., inexpensive) setup, what should I look for? I see tons of ski kits (skis, bindings, boots, poles) for sale on craigslist, but have no idea which would be suitable for what I'm after. Any pointers are greatly appreciated!

[sisu]

JP, I really enjoyed your article in Cross Country Skier magazine. I'd post a link here but it isn't available in digital form yet.

Are you still available for XC lessons?

Any boot recommendations for singletrack skiing?

Thanks for the tips past and present!

[JeffOYB]

Hi Sisu... Thanks! I haven't seen it yet, myself! : ) (...Those mag dudes.)

Sure, I'm psyched to give lessons. And I'm pretty sure I'm the only instructor who'll "tell it like it is" for real-world skiing. $20 a pop! : ) (All other instructors give racing instruction which just isn't right for beginners even if you're aiming to race. XC is in a nutty place, culturally, right now.)

Boot tip: Any light tour boot with a freely pivoting cuff. I love Alpina T-20 and Rossi X5/X6. (BC-NNN if intense handling is in your picture.) Just be careful of Combi boots -- often too tall and too stiff (you don't want a 90% skate boot, classic as an afterthought).

***

About BAlexander67's "tele" breakthru. Real tele is like a DH bike. You wouldn't want to XC on it. But you can do lots of fun turning and also some moderate tele action on a "hardtail" comparable like a Fischer Silent Spider or Rossi BC 65 or Rossi EVO Glade -- all about 65mm wide. The famous Karhu Guide (now Madshus Epoch) is a totally rockin' tele ski with fishscales -- you CAN tour up to a few miles on them. About 100mm wide. Basically, the wider the ski the better the vertical, but the fewer the miles you want to do horizontally (and the more awkward and slow any miles will be). 65mm is about the widest that will fit into a ski track for nice kick'n'gliding. Tele'ing on 65mm is like 'underbiking' but it's fun. Touring on 85's is doable but slow. BC-NNN bindings are a good win-win item -- they make turning easier without impairing your kick'n'glide fun. Anyway, it's all on a sliding scale, I suppose. For Michigan I'd say to go 65mm + BC-NNN for both touring and turning fun. Our terrain isn't so extreme. If you're in the UP you might want more float (width).