Historical Rouge Park Discussion

[WishIcouldcatchmybreath]

According to the last Metro South chapter minutes that I read, the trail was abandoned due to lack of interest......

[Loren]

A trail like Rouge needs an owner with an enormous amount of passion, time, and energy to drive it. There are challenges and obstacles on many fronts to overcome. A chapter can't just assign this task to someone. It can't be delegated. The drive has got to come from within.

Rouge needs a Builder Bill, but hasn't found one yet. If someone stepped forward, I'm sure they would find the support that they needed in the chapter.

[Snowybunting]

I checked out this trail this morning. Found the trail entrance marked with a yellow post at Tireman and Outer Drive, and walked in a bit before going back and getting the bike. There was lots of debris and the trail was fairly difficult to spot in places. I lost sight of the trail about 1/3-1/2 mile in when it switched back uphill toward Outer Drive, then went parallel with the river again. A 100 yards or so past this, the trail went over a wooden bridge and disappeared. It looked like it went towards the river at one time, but it was overgrown with 4-5 foot high weeds that made it impossible to pass. I turned back and had to plow out thru the edge of the trail to the paved path off O.D. before the mosquitoes carried me off.

It looks as if it could be a pretty decent trail. There was a cool area that went over some drains to the river, you have to navigate some serious rocks, and some nice twists and turns. But I was only able to go about 1/2 mile. It definitely need some TLC.

[macbean]

I am interested in knowing as well. Both the City of Detroit and the Warrendale Community asked me this week about the trail status. They would like to see the trail finished.

Also, the MMBA received a $4,500 REI grant, half of which goes to the Greening of Detroit for reforestry work at Rouge Park. Has the Greening been contacted about this project?

For a variety of reasons, the Metro South Chapter has ceased active maintenance and building of this trail. If a motivated, dedicated TC can be found we could talk further about resuming work on it. Before making this decision, we discussed it at several of the meetings and attempted to find a new TC.

Regarding the REI grant, after discussions with REI, it has been reallocated to provide funding for other 'urban' area trails, specifically, trails within the Hines drive area. Unfortunately, it was never stated anywhere that I know of that any of this money was to go toward reforestry work with the Greening of Detroit. This may have been overlooked since no one involved at this point ever saw anything in writing regarding the grant money.

[Todd Scott]

Regarding the REI grant, after discussions with REI, it has been reallocated to provide funding for other 'urban' area trails, specifically, trails within the Hines drive area. Unfortunately, it was never stated anywhere that I know of that any of this money was to go toward reforestry work with the Greening of Detroit. This may have been overlooked since no one involved at this point ever saw anything in writing regarding the grant money.

So no one reviewed what the grant was for before deciding to spend it on something else?

The original grant proposal, including the reforestry committment the MMBA made to REI, the City of Detroit, and other stakeholders has been on the MMBA web site since 2005. It's clearly linked to the Rouge Park trail listing. It was also published in Bent Rim Bugle. Googling for "REI grant mmba rouge park" shows this information was also published all across the web including Mountain Bike Action. Information about the grant was also emailed to the DetroitMTB mailing list and that has been on-line for 3 years as well. MMBA Metro South President Joe Foy along with at least a dozen other pepple received a copy of the grant via this email list.

I don't believe overlooked is the correct term.

Clearly no good faith effort was made to fulfill the MMBA's grant obligations. That's not only very disappointing but also a big negative mark against the MMBA when applying for future grants.

And by the way, what about additional financial donations made specifically to this Rouge Park project? Was that money returned?

[solecki]

The MMBA is still maintaining the additional restricted donations. Although I am aware of the “move” away from Rouge, I also know some people were not ready to completely abandon this trail and so the money just sits here.

I have less than $200 remaining for use on the Rouge trail so if someone is planning to do some maintenance, please keep me in the loop.

If nothing happens soon, I have the obligation to contact the donor and find out if they would like the unused balance returned.

[hockeydaddy]

To All,
Back in 2007 we asked at 2 of the meetings that we were looking for an active TC for Rouge. We also noted no real activity at the trail as well. So at the Fall meeting we brought it up about stopping the rouge project and there were no objections and we decide to do just that.

We asked REI if we could transfer the funds to another project and they had no objections.

The Rouge trail was a constant fight with trash, bio hazards, drug use and other so called interested parties that did nothing to help but hinder us in our every move. The trail days were nothing but removing all the debri that was dumped during the past year so it was at the least, diffucult, to cut any new trail. Here we are a group that is trying to bring something back to life and all they could care about was a plant growing next to the random abandon car or the pile of tires. They never helped us at trail days but as soon as we put in trail they were right there to complain about where the trail was. This trail was intended for the neighborhood and the occasional MTB'er who needed a quick ride. It did not work so we dircted our sights and efforts elsewhere.

This is not saying if someone who would love to pick up the torch and try running with it again then we would be in full support of it. But until that happens it is what it is.

Todd, 'Overlooked" is exactly what had happened. I never heard of any monies going to the Greening of Detroit. Maybe you and Harvey discussed it. There were alot of instances where you kept everything close to the cuff and when you left we were in the dark about a few things. So we tread on as a learning experience and our trying to do the best job we can do as ......VOLUNTEERS.

Joe, please fill me in on 'who" wasn't ready to abandon this trail because I never heard from them or if they did speak that's all we got from them.

[dirt]

I am interested in knowing as well. Both the City of Detroit and the Warrendale Community asked me this week about the trail status. They would like to see the trail finished.

Did you do the right thing, and direct them to the MMBA for updates and information?

[hockeydaddy]

Next week I will do a walk through of the trail and it's condition. I will report back on this thread of my findings. If there are ANY interested parties that would like to join me please PM me.

[scat silvurz]

Todd, it's not a big deal. REI still loves us, and wants to keep helping us out. And returning the remaining $200 bux to Corradino Group who donated, won't break the bank one bit either. We should probably contact them and find out if they want it back, or to keep it and let the MS chapter put it towards trails.

It's not like the MMBA didn't try either. We had many trail days out there - there's an actual 1/2 mile trail - the trail exists! But, with zero interest, or any actions or motivation by the city to improve the rest of the park, and the invisible Greening of Detroit interest in the trail [where there's already tons of trees], and add in the glaring fact that very few MMBA members even would consider using the trail [or even want to leave their car there while they ride], the decision to return and redirect REI's grant funds was the option Metro South, and the MMBA ultimately took. It's the right decision.

Sometimes the slogan "if you build it, they will come" doesn't apply. I could offer up a multitude of reasons for the failure of the Rouge Trail Project, but it wasn't from lack of trying, but from a confluence of circumstances that resulted in this outcome.

The Metro South chapter is ultimately better served by making new trails where their members will actually want to go. And, this project will serve as an example of what can happen when a city refuses to move beyond feel-good rhetoric and create a park environment where people feel comfortable going to. Investing time and resources within that context is foolish. Until that changes, look for new trails to crop up along the Hines corridor, and elsewhere in SE Michigan.

Ooh, I see my 5 minutes is up.....

[Nelg]

The Metro South chapter is ultimately better served by making new trails where their members will actually want to go.

Hey, I'm sure we have members that are drug dealers or tranny's, Rouge Park is a great fit for them. Even Hodaddy the badass is looking for someone to go there with him.

Seriously, the trail was too short to be worth driving to and a chunk of the park goers are not exactly the type of people you are going to have over to your house to play Yahtzee on Saturday night. We would have to build quite a few miles of poto or PLRA like single track to attract more serious riders to embrace it, maintain it and keep it clean as it sounds like local participation was little and from what I saw of the trail it was a mess. We tried to make it a training ride destination for our team but it was just way too soft to use early in the season where other trails had been totally ridable for a month already.

A good effort was made, but if there was no local support I can see why we pulled the plug.

[chris_f]

This is getting out of hand. There is no need to make the improbable leap from "the chapter is focusing its efforts where there are resources," which is reasonable, to "it's abandoned! MAMA!"

The MMBA has many trails that are "in progress," "under construction," "closed until open", etc. Look on the Trail Guide, see the "???" and Closed signs. It's no big deal. Hickory Glen in Commerce was once a trash dump and still has illegal dumping, and adverse users, but that doesn't stop it from being a great trail.

Rouge is simply on hold until a TC steps up, as Loren and a few others noted. That's it. All the other challenges can be and were being dealt with over time, and the loss of the original Trail Coordinator certainly left a void that has been difficult to fill. Having a trail there already started to discourage the adverse users (good users crowd out bad users).

There was a disagreement with one user group, and they changed their tune after the city threatened to sell some nearby land, realizing that having a trail was an asset after all. Other groups like the model airplaners and Warrendale Community group were happy to have us a neighbors.

In the meantime, the MetroSouth Chapter has decided to focus on other trails where there are volunteer resources to do so, including Hines. This is fine. Eventually, Hines and Rouge may become part of one long trail; there's plenty of land.

On a personal note, I would love to be a position to be the TC or take the lead, but I have other volunteer commitments that I decided to take on. So I don't begrudge anyone else for not stepping up either. I just don't think it's fair to scare away a potential TC with all this doom and gloom. If the right person takes the lead, there are plenty of people willing to help, myself included. There are other groups in the area we can partner with, but when it comes to building a bike trail, the MMBA will have to lead. In the meantime, Rouge continues to be a work in progress.

Joe F,
Let's set a date, post it, and all interested can meet up. We'll do an assessment, and come up with an issues list that can be used as a roadmap for future work when resources become available.

[Todd Scott]

Excellent response, Chris. My big concern is that by taking away the funding to complete Rouge Park, it's far less likely to get done. Is REI or another group going to award a future grant to the MMBA to finish Rouge Park? Not likely.

And as we've discussed earlier, parks like the Tree Farm and Pontiac Lake experience more vandalism than Rouge. After the initial cleanups at Rouge, it has not been a constant battle of trash. I was just riding out there and didn't recall seeing any trash on the trail. This trail could be completed. Of course it's not going to have much traffic until it is longer, made into a loop, signed, with a kiosk, and with trail maps/brochures -- all the things were to be supported and doable with that REI grant. Although it would be nice to have a Builder Bill-type volunteer, I don't think it's necessary for success.

The MMBA is still maintaining the additional restricted donations. Although I am aware of the “move” away from Rouge, I also know some people were not ready to completely abandon this trail and so the money just sits here.

I have less than $200 remaining for use on the Rouge trail so if someone is planning to do some maintenance, please keep me in the loop.

If nothing happens soon, I have the obligation to contact the donor and find out if they would like the unused balance returned.

That's good to hear, Joe. Thanks for being on top of that. If the trail were "abandoned" as originally stated, the MMBA should at least offer the donor a complete reimbursement. A commitment was made to complete the trail at Rouge Park and the money was donated for that reason.

Todd, 'Overlooked" is exactly what had happened. I never heard of any monies going to the Greening of Detroit. Maybe you and Harvey discussed it. There were alot of instances where you kept everything close to the cuff and when you left we were in the dark about a few things.

As I previous noted, you received email copies of the REI grant proposal, it's been on the MMBA site for years, and very easily accessible on the web. If a decision was made to not fulfill the REI grant commitment, then those deciding should have been told just what those commitments were ahead of time. The stakeholders (City, Warrendale, Friends group) should have been kept in the loop. I just don't see this decision being taken all that seriously and that's the troubling part.

It sounds like the REI grant money has not yet been spent, so there's no reason why the portion originally allocated to reforesting portions of Rouge Park couldn't be planned now and completed in the spring. If the MMBA didn't want to manage that project, I'm sure the very active Friends of Rouge Park probably would.

[WallEyed]

And as we've discussed earlier, parks like the Tree Farm and Pontiac Lake experience more vandalism than Rouge. After the initial cleanups at Rouge, it has not been a constant battle of trash. I was just riding out there and didn't recall seeing any trash on the trail.

Todd, I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I have worked at Rouge on 4 occasions, and each one was spent hauling trash out of the same mile of trail. I have probably worked on that trail for a good 15 hours, along with a bunch of other volunteers, and the trail still sits at about a mile.

There is some beautiful terrain out there, and I'd love to see something get done. But even the volunteers were getting frustrated at working on the same thing over and over again, and it's hard to keep a project moving forward that way.

The sad truth is that this trail needs that Builder Bill or nothing will get built. If someone had the passion to forge ahead and carve out a great 5 mile trail, then maybe people would be more excited to ride it and keep it clean. But to ask volunteers to put in that much time on a trail that seemingly goes nowhere is just unfair at this point.

[Loren]

Ya know guys, if the trail was surveyed and marked there are ways to create trail very quickly, but it's not using mcleods, pulaskis, and loppers.