MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

For posting trail-specific conditions and problems

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Loren » September 5th, 2013, 7:49 am

Rode last night, didn't notice anything amiss. The new bridge is nice, but there's a lot more loose sand than usual.
Loren
 
Posts: 2649
Joined: April 12th, 2005, 9:11 pm
Location: Novi, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby ibisman » September 5th, 2013, 11:43 am

ditto. Was out this morning to try out my new full rigid and had my chainsaw for the downed tree, but someone must have gotten it. All I can say about full rigid is... wow, what a difference. I have not ridden a rigid bike in 22 years when this bike was new.I did 2 laps on the rigid and 2 on my F/R bike and I like how the rigid climbed, and went through the sand, but the roots! and the ramps! This will take a while to get used to. A lot of sand, and other than that the trail was perfect!
Image
Martyrs or marines
who do you think gets
the virgins?
USMC 1968-1972
30,551.5 total miles since 2002
Miles for 2014--1028---miles for 2013... 1770.25 miles. 0 road miles
all on teenie, tiny, normal sized wheels
User avatar
ibisman
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 1:07 pm
Location: livonia michigan

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby mclouthken » September 5th, 2013, 1:44 pm

I'm not a trail building expert by any stretch, so I apologize if this is a dumb question.....Can we do any trail projects to those specific areas that frequently seem to build up with sand or do more people like those features?
Ken

2013 Specialized EPIC Comp 29
2013 Trek Rig SS
2004 Gary Fisher Cake 3 - RIP
"If you never fall, you're just not trying"
User avatar
mclouthken
 
Posts: 47
Joined: March 31st, 2011, 9:03 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby c0nsumer » September 5th, 2013, 2:19 pm

mclouthken wrote:I'm not a trail building expert by any stretch, so I apologize if this is a dumb question.....Can we do any trail projects to those specific areas that frequently seem to build up with sand or do more people like those features?


Give this thread a read for a start, as it's actively discussing similar things.

Sand building up at the bottoms of hills is the result of it washing/running down the hills, which is generally the fault of the trail design.
Steve Vigneau
Big Ring Coffee MTB Racing
CRAMBA-IMBA Chairperson
River Bends Park Co-Trail Coordinator
MMBA Website / Forum Administrator

Unless otherwise stated the content of my posts are my opinion and should not be taken as the official stance of, nor representative of, the MMBA nor CRAMBA-IMBA.
User avatar
c0nsumer
Administrator
 
Posts: 8579
Joined: May 18th, 2008, 11:35 am
Location: Shelby Township, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Loren » September 5th, 2013, 2:35 pm

Part of this is trail design, but right now the Hick has pools of loose sand at the bottom of even gentle 1/2 % grades and the outside lines of many corners even on flat ground.

The Hick is much more like a northern lower Michigan trail than our other SE area trails in that it's all sand bound together by organics. That's why the trail is dry and rideable almost immediately after a rain - days before Lakeshore only a couple miles away. It's also why the TC is adamant about not clearing leaves in the fall, as it's the only thing binding the sand together.
Loren
 
Posts: 2649
Joined: April 12th, 2005, 9:11 pm
Location: Novi, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby c0nsumer » September 5th, 2013, 2:45 pm

Loren wrote:Part of this is trail design, but right now the Hick has pools of loose sand at the bottom of even gentle 1/2 % grades and the outside lines of many corners even on flat ground.

The Hick is much more like a northern lower Michigan trail than our other SE area trails in that it's all sand bound together by organics. That's why the trail is dry and rideable almost immediately after a rain - days before Lakeshore only a couple miles away. It's also why the TC is adamant about not clearing leaves in the fall, as it's the only thing binding the sand together.


Sorry, I should have been clearer about saying that sand at the bottom of hills is generally that. But, as you said, if it's a sandy area in general, the warm/dry weather that we generally get this time of the year also makes sandy areas soft.
Steve Vigneau
Big Ring Coffee MTB Racing
CRAMBA-IMBA Chairperson
River Bends Park Co-Trail Coordinator
MMBA Website / Forum Administrator

Unless otherwise stated the content of my posts are my opinion and should not be taken as the official stance of, nor representative of, the MMBA nor CRAMBA-IMBA.
User avatar
c0nsumer
Administrator
 
Posts: 8579
Joined: May 18th, 2008, 11:35 am
Location: Shelby Township, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Spinwheel » September 5th, 2013, 7:29 pm

mclouthken wrote:I'm not a trail building expert by any stretch, so I apologize if this is a dumb question.....Can we do any trail projects to those specific areas that frequently seem to build up with sand or do more people like those features?



Yes ! Please send me an email - let me know what you're thinking, which areas,ect.. there are a few ways to address erosion.
I am running behind on a couple projects this year, so need to finish those off, but can always discuss potential new projects and see how they could fit in.

As for the leaves, there is no doubt that that they help slow erosion at the hick, especially Oak leaves - and I can point to trail sections that I've thrown leaves on over the years vs. those that have not gotten this treatment - there's a big difference in erosion wear, sand and muddy spot formation. Here is some background info - click to the last couple of pages on this link.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94406&start=75

Thank-you,
Tim
TC, Hickory Glen Park - Commerce Twp.
User avatar
Spinwheel
 
Posts: 937
Joined: May 8th, 2003, 10:03 am
Location: SE Michigan Mountain Bike MECCA

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby ibisman » September 6th, 2013, 6:01 am

The sand on this trail is NOT from poor trail design, but from the unusual amount of rain we have had this year. Poor trail design would be straight up and down sections like ILRA on the blue loop, the trail used to go straight down to a road crossing and by the end of summer have a 10" deep rut down the middle, or Brighton on torn shirt loop with is straight up and down and loose sand and gravel. Nope, this is one trail that you can ride right after a down pour.
Martyrs or marines
who do you think gets
the virgins?
USMC 1968-1972
30,551.5 total miles since 2002
Miles for 2014--1028---miles for 2013... 1770.25 miles. 0 road miles
all on teenie, tiny, normal sized wheels
User avatar
ibisman
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 1:07 pm
Location: livonia michigan

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Loren » September 6th, 2013, 7:41 am

One place that I think we could do something about is that one small segment just after the trail brushes the paved path for the first time - straight down a hill and back up and connects with the paved path. It might be a candidate for the soil stabilizer technique we did at the Farm.

(It's also fast and wide enough for an alternate jump line...)
Loren
 
Posts: 2649
Joined: April 12th, 2005, 9:11 pm
Location: Novi, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Apps » September 6th, 2013, 8:27 am

A lot of the sand at the Hick this year has to do with the hard downpour rains we've seen. I was out there wednesday pm as well and you could see where the rain water had followed the trailbed down the switchbacks and all. Some deberming out there could help the water run off so that it doesn't make the corner and continue to pick up speed and more sand.

Leaving the leaves on the trailbed also help slow the water and erosion down as spinwheel points out.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
04 Ventana Pantera (FS)
06 Redline Flight Monocog (SS)
07 LeMond Poprad Disc (Cross)
08 Vassago Bandersnatch (29er)

http://www.teamtreefarm.com Image
User avatar
Apps
 
Posts: 731
Joined: June 23rd, 2004, 6:46 pm
Location: Commerce Twp, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby mclouthken » September 6th, 2013, 9:39 am

I think a second area to review for a possible project would be the downhill just before the short bridge about 0.5 mile before the two steeper hills that Loren mentioned above. The section I hilight has a few significant sized trees close to the edge of the trail at the botom of the hill, which makes it particularly dangerous.
Ken

2013 Specialized EPIC Comp 29
2013 Trek Rig SS
2004 Gary Fisher Cake 3 - RIP
"If you never fall, you're just not trying"
User avatar
mclouthken
 
Posts: 47
Joined: March 31st, 2011, 9:03 pm
Location: White Lake, MI

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby ibisman » September 7th, 2013, 5:35 pm

I guess you could cut the trees down...or steer around them:)
Martyrs or marines
who do you think gets
the virgins?
USMC 1968-1972
30,551.5 total miles since 2002
Miles for 2014--1028---miles for 2013... 1770.25 miles. 0 road miles
all on teenie, tiny, normal sized wheels
User avatar
ibisman
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: February 9th, 2006, 1:07 pm
Location: livonia michigan

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Spinwheel » September 8th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Loren wrote:One place that I think we could do something about is that one small segment just after the trail brushes the paved path for the first time - straight down a hill and back up and connects with the paved path. It might be a candidate for the soil stabilizer technique we did at the Farm.

(It's also fast and wide enough for an alternate jump line...)


This area is on the list behind the red house reroute and the short steep climb by Oakley Park Rd. This segment is a 2-track that was adopted by MTB Loop.
Tim
TC, Hickory Glen Park - Commerce Twp.
User avatar
Spinwheel
 
Posts: 937
Joined: May 8th, 2003, 10:03 am
Location: SE Michigan Mountain Bike MECCA

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby Spinwheel » September 8th, 2013, 1:26 pm

mclouthken wrote:I think a second area to review for a possible project would be the downhill just before the short bridge about 0.5 mile before the two steeper hills that Loren mentioned above. The section I hilight has a few significant sized trees close to the edge of the trail at the botom of the hill, which makes it particularly dangerous.


Agree this needs attention. About 10 months ago I moved the berm at the bottom over to direct riders between the trees rather than straight into the the one on the right. Not a "fix" just a safety enhancement - - -
Tim
TC, Hickory Glen Park - Commerce Twp.
User avatar
Spinwheel
 
Posts: 937
Joined: May 8th, 2003, 10:03 am
Location: SE Michigan Mountain Bike MECCA

Re: MCMBA: Commerce - Hickory Glen

Postby steveracer » September 8th, 2013, 5:39 pm

I rode out there today, and didn't find any big issues with the trail. If someone wants to get a broom and sweep the sand off the trail, have at it. It is sediment from uphill, and is a development of nature, as far as I am concerned. Let the leaves do their job this fall and winter. A little sand is a pain, I agree, and requires a different technique to ride through it, just like it takes a different technique for different bikes, different weights, different physical condition that a person is in. Small items can be adjusted on the trail, but is sure isn't unsafe. Another thing to consider here, is in my neighborhood, there is a lot of washed out gravel across the pavement due to the very heavy rains. Take a look at some of the shoulders of the two lane roads around the area and there is some serious erosion there as well!

Sure the trail has a different character, but it sure is not un rideable, nor is it unsafe. Only difficult area that I found seems to be uphill after the first hairpin near Glengary. That should be first priority for repair. Perhaps we can use some of that Tree Farm binder.
Hope is not a good strategy.
User avatar
steveracer
 
Posts: 267
Joined: April 19th, 2003, 7:37 am
Location: West Bloomfield

PreviousNext

Return to Trail Conditions & Comments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest