CRAMBA: Holdridge

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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby andyf » June 7th, 2013, 7:34 am

Rode West last night. Cleared two more limbs on Lake Loop leaving the largest for the chain saw. Just after crossing Hess road into East I see this guy blowing down the road at a high rate of speed on his bike... it just struck me as odd... so I cut out and rode to the end of Hess. Two guys were there on bikes taking... I said how's it going... nothing looked out of order so I cut into the trail. Just before #4 it looked like there was fresh activity by the tail bandits. The berm looked higher and some fresh dirt moved. I also noticed before that point... one very large tree root on a healthy tree chopped off even with the trail tread (apparently consistent with their "no bumps allowed" approach to trail building). Also... I was able to clear the two fairly heavy dead logs ~2.5 by finding a fulcrum and rotating off the trail. I continued on past #5 and cut back to the return trail... rode that out to Hess and back to end of the road. I did not see any other activity of concern. I wonder if there is a tools cache near #4... should have spent some time looking for that... but it did not occur to me until later.

After reflecting on my own frustration over the bandits... here are a few additional thoughts: It is possible that these folks actually believe that what they are doing is good for all and perfectly acceptable. Therefore, it seems that the most positive approach is to confront, attempt to educate, and win them over to particpating in a more appropriate way. If they won't listen, then they need to face some consequences from the DNR... assuming they can be identified.

Generally speaking, a more positive approach will produce more desirable results. Dwelling too long on all things negative can actually impact one's own ability to perceive anything positive about any situation... you literally can't see it through that set of lenses. Perhaps its time to take a step back and re-evaluate recent previous posts in this forum. I know everyone is extremely frustrated over recent events to say the least.

-Andy.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Critter7r » June 7th, 2013, 11:44 am

There is a sign shop right in Holly. I will inquire about having some inexpensive, small signs made up with some verbiage along the lines of "Do not modify trails without the consent of the Trail Coordinator and the DNR" or something - maybe a 10" x 12" size that can be tacke onto the entracnce signs to the various trails. I'd be willing to buy these myself. I'll touch base with Ron and see if he has any recommendations on wording. Ron, PM me if you're reading this and have ideas.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby c0nsumer » June 7th, 2013, 12:06 pm

Critter7r wrote:There is a sign shop right in Holly. I will inquire about having some inexpensive, small signs made up with some verbiage along the lines of "Do not modify trails without the consent of the Trail Coordinator and the DNR" or something - maybe a 10" x 12" size that can be tacke onto the entracnce signs to the various trails. I'd be willing to buy these myself. I'll touch base with Ron and see if he has any recommendations on wording. Ron, PM me if you're reading this and have ideas.


If I may suggest, make it more inviting / informative. A demand is easily dismissed, but if you phrase it saying who takes care of the trails, how they can be engaged, and why they are maintained as they are it may be better received.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Critter7r » June 7th, 2013, 12:45 pm

Good point. I'll try to word-smith something up in a way that is consise, non-threatening and has this website address on it.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby c0nsumer » June 7th, 2013, 12:57 pm

Critter7r wrote:Good point. I'll try to word-smith something up in a way that is consise, non-threatening and has this website address on it.


Actually, it should have cramba.org on it and point to either info@cramba.org or holdridge@cramba.org. The MMBA no longer does local advocacy and/or trail work.
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River Bends Park Co-Trail Coordinator
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Unless otherwise stated the content of my posts are my opinion and should not be taken as the official stance of, nor representative of, the MMBA nor CRAMBA-IMBA.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby andyf » June 8th, 2013, 6:42 pm

Well... consider the following perspective:
> A person relatively new to Mt. Biking... riding for 2 years
> Took several bad falls triggered by rocks/roots in the trail
> One such fall serious enough to keep him off the bike for several months
> Someone who prefers the flow of Yankee Springs (I believe that was the trail cited)
> On a personal mission to make the trail safe and to make it flow like his favorite trails with few rocks/roots
... and there you have it. That is the guy making mods to East loop. I had a long conversation with him this afternoon. I believe this guy had good intentions from his perspective and simply did not understand the bigger picture of how changes get approved, working under the authority of the land manager, and the need to balance "safety" with degree of difficulty, riding styles and preferences, IMBA approach to sustainability, etc. etc. etc. He was very understanding and agreed to work any future changes through the TC's (myself and Ron).

So... what are the take aways?
1) We need to educate with better signage. Something brief at the trail entrances, and a more complete statement on the board at the trail head. People who do care (like this guy) will read and heed. Of course, there is always a small percentage that will ignore anything posted. Critter, make sure you sync with Ron before making anything. It needs to be short and big enough to read and get the point while rolling into the trail. I can write the longer statement for the board.
2) I think we have won over someone who is not afraid of hard work and will contribute going forward
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Rock N' Rolla » June 8th, 2013, 8:13 pm

A convert .. that awesome... I huess a question for him, to benefit us would be if a sign was up at the trail head would he have noticed and contacted CRAMBA, or would several signs throughout the trail have been better?
I am heading out there tomorrow morning to ride with a friend from work.I dont want to ride along or keep breaking in the changes he made if its going to make an 'undoing" difficult, or are these changes just going to be left alone and I can ride guilt free. I dont ride this trail often enough to tell as I am hualing down the trail new from old?
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby andyf » June 8th, 2013, 9:19 pm

Ride whatever line you see. It won't impact the amount of effort to make appropriate changes going forward.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Jim O » June 10th, 2013, 6:38 am

Andy, did you ask this fellow if he was aware of this Forum? Maybe this would be good verbiage to include on a sign?
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby pharus » June 10th, 2013, 9:16 am

I remember seeing a large sign along I-75 near 14 Mile, that said "These trees were illegally cut down". How about something like that, with a softer tone as referenced above, that we could put up anywhere we see unapproved changes? The people who make these changes will always come back to see how their handiwork is holding up. If they were to see a sign posted right there that indicated the work was not authorized, it would get directly to the people responsible.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Sortaslow » June 10th, 2013, 10:52 am

What was that these trees were illegally cut all about anyway?

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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby iamkickstand » June 10th, 2013, 11:45 am

Sortaslow wrote:What was that these trees were illegally cut all about anyway?

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1. I gathered that there was a trail bandit making the east loop easier.

2. I gathered that If you see a limb in the way of the trail don't move it because the TC doesn't apprecaite people trying to help out.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby KLydesdale » June 10th, 2013, 12:18 pm

Sortaslow wrote:What was that these trees were illegally cut all about anyway?



From what I recall, a business right next to the freeway there wanted the trees out the way so people driving by could see the signs on their building. So they went ahead and cut the trees down on the I-75 right-of-way even though they didn't have the legal right to do so.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby andrew52690 » June 10th, 2013, 12:19 pm

Rode the West loop, got to the steep hill and noticed what looked to be an old bandit trails to the left of the bench. Who ever is in charge of the trails should look at opening that bit of trail up again, as another option around the steep hill. I'm sure it could be done correctly.
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Re: CRAMBA: Holdridge

Postby Josh McCreedy » June 10th, 2013, 2:02 pm

The steep, eroded hill is known as "the wall." Facing the hill, there is a re-route to the left, that is easier but with one tough move over a root. There is also a return loop, which lets you do repeats on the wall. I'm not sure if this is the bench you're referring to.
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