CRAMBA: Pontiac Lake

[Di_bear]

Horse $hit at miles 2,4,5 & 6

Regarding my ride tonight, I almost ran over a little chippy who was hanging out in the middle of the trail. He looked distressed and wasn't moving, although he was certainly alive and breathing. He wouldn't move when I tried to guide him off the trail with my foot, so I got a piece of bark to use as a spatula and some little fat sticks to keep him on it. Moved him off the trail only about a foot and a half. I hate seeing stuff like that.

one dead chipmunk aboot 1.5 miles in

[Di_bear]

Most equestrians don't care how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers.

Fixed that for you.

The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them.

How about the "These trails aren't open to horse" reason? Should be pretty a pretty good reason.

...and how many times have you been persuaded not to do something because it wasn't allowed? Yes, I have something specific in mind.

[dirt]

Most equestrians don't care how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers.

Fixed that for you.

The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them.

How about the "These trails aren't open to horse" reason? Should be pretty a pretty good reason.

...and how many times have you been persuaded not to do something because it wasn't allowed? Yes, I have something specific in mind.

What's your point? My comment simply is that rather the arguing the reasons that horses are bad for MTB trails, simply state "Horse aren't allowed on this trail"

[Di_bear]

Most equestrians don't care how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers.

Fixed that for you.

The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them.

How about the "These trails aren't open to horse" reason? Should be pretty a pretty good reason.

...and how many times have you been persuaded not to do something because it wasn't allowed? Yes, I have something specific in mind.

What's your point? My comment simply is that rather the arguing the reasons that horses are bad for MTB trails, simply state "Horse aren't allowed on this trail"

I just assumed that wouldn't work since there are signs clearly stating that.

[c0nsumer]

Most equestrians don't care how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers.

Fixed that for you.

The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them.

How about the "These trails aren't open to horse" reason? Should be pretty a pretty good reason.

...and how many times have you been persuaded not to do something because it wasn't allowed? Yes, I have something specific in mind.

What's your point? My comment simply is that rather the arguing the reasons that horses are bad for MTB trails, simply state "Horse aren't allowed on this trail"

I just assumed that wouldn't work since there are signs clearly stating that.

You are conflating method (signage) with reason (horses not permitted).

[compacted_graphite]

To Builder Bill (Proud Lake and Milford Trail TC): There are HIPPA Laws (patient privacy) which will prevent you from getting a good update on your injured biker from Saturday. Any assistance rendered is certainly appreciated.

[Critter7r]

To Builder Bill (Proud Lake and Milford Trail TC): There are HIPPA Laws (patient privacy) which will prevent you from getting a good update on your injured biker from Saturday. Any assistance rendered is certainly appreciated.

Well certainly, if someone here knows the guy that was hurt they can give a quick, "yes, he's going to be ok" without violating any privacy laws.

[KLydesdale]

I saw horse leavings today on two mile hill, but I am not sure where they entered the bike trail.

Those horses could have come off the trail that connects the horse trail and the MTB loop right near the base of the two-mile hill climb. I don't know if that little section is an official trail or not but I have been on it both on foot and by snowmobile. The climb on the horse trail in that area is a rather steep, nasty, eroded fall line one. Perhaps some equestrians out there for the PLHA campout/ride who were not too familiar with PLRA and saw that climb and avoided it by continuing along the interconnecting trail to the MTB loop. I don't recall any signs indicating you're leaving the horse trail or entering the MTB trail (or vice-versa) at either junction points.

[FREEDOM35]

I agree that being confrontational with horsey riders will accomplish nothing. When I see them on the trail I am polite. After all, they are expending a tremendous amount of energy sitting atop their mobile couches that leave smelly piles at the tops of only the steepest of hills. Still, Pontiac Lake is still a mountain bike trail, unlike Proud Lake (a trampled lost cause to me).

[str8flush24]

To Builder Bill (Proud Lake and Milford Trail TC): There are HIPPA Laws (patient privacy) which will prevent you from getting a good update on your injured biker from Saturday. Any assistance rendered is certainly appreciated.

Well certainly, if someone here knows the guy that was hurt they can give a quick, "yes, he's going to be ok" without violating any privacy laws.

I am no lawyer but I am pretty sure that only applies to people who provide medical care for him....Dr, nurse, etc. OP was probably looking for an update from Matt himself or one his boys...JMHO

[str8flush24]

I saw horse leavings today on two mile hill, but I am not sure where they entered the bike trail.

Those horses could have come off the trail that connects the horse trail and the MTB loop right near the base of the two-mile hill climb. I don't know if that little section is an official trail or not but I have been on it both on foot and by snowmobile. The climb on the horse trail in that area is a rather steep, nasty, eroded fall line one. Perhaps some equestrians out there for the PLHA campout/ride who were not too familiar with PLRA and saw that climb and avoided it by continuing along the interconnecting trail to the MTB loop. I don't recall any signs indicating you're leaving the horse trail or entering the MTB trail (or vice-versa) at either junction points.

Definite possibility. I ran into them right before that intersection last year. After speaking with them I think they honestly had zero idea of where they were at.

[Di_bear]

To Builder Bill (Proud Lake and Milford Trail TC): There are HIPPA Laws (patient privacy) which will prevent you from getting a good update on your injured biker from Saturday. Any assistance rendered is certainly appreciated.

This is only for medical personnel providing professional care while they're on the clock. It's patient confidentiality so patients feel safe going to the hospital or clinic for care, which is often regarding an embarrassing condition. HIPPA is nothing more than a law enforcing a law that was already in effect.

[Builder-Bill]

To Builder Bill (Proud Lake and Milford Trail TC): There are HIPPA Laws (patient privacy) which will prevent you from getting a good update on your injured biker from Saturday. Any assistance rendered is certainly appreciated.

Well certainly, if someone here knows the guy that was hurt they can give a quick, "yes, he's going to be ok" without violating any privacy laws.

WOW... Yes, I know about HIPPA... I was just asking if anyone knows the guy.. and can tell me general info....
like....
Is he OK...or Not.

[Roy]

I lost this threads track. How did Di violate the HIPPA law by reporting on the health of a chipmunk?

I think that washed out fall line hill was one of the 2 Pukes traded off when the trail was divided up!

Roy

[KLydesdale]

I think that washed out fall line hill was one of the 2 Pukes traded off when the trail was divided up!

Roy

Nope, the hill I'm talking about on the equestrian trail is not one of the old Pukes and was never even part of the official MTB loop out there AFAIK. Big Puke and Little Puke were actually quite a bit aways from the two mile climb area, more near Teggerdine Road in the area where the equestrain tunnel is.