CRAMBA: Pontiac Lake

[str8flush24]

Trail was in great shape today after the rains yesterday....will report back in the next few days if I end up with a nasty case of ivy.

[oldkhs]

Thanks for the tips on the PI, weedeater is out...

As for the branches, loppers are definitely a better long term solution, it just seems there are a few areas that have A LOT of growth to the edge of the trail. For example the immediate start after you turn off the fire road. It seems a 2nd path is there now (to the right). Also a few hundred yaards later after the little hill on the left curve. Lots of stuff on the left.

I rode tonight after the 10 minute rain, and there was obviously a lot of stuff hanging down from all over the place.

Jury still out on the hedgtrimmers and going after a rain when trail not ridable.

[str8flush24]

Great conditions tonight. Noticed multiple horse turds in the section after campground rd and before the RC airfield.

[Andy_B]

I cough the equine-riders on the trial on Tuesday night. I did not have my phone, so I could not call the park ranger. Their response to, "Hey, you know your on the wrong trail, and you horse took a few dumps?" Was, less than pleasant... They exited the park at the Airfield and head back to the Campground road or Indian Springs. Maybe add a bigger keep you Fu*king horse off the trail sign is needed at the Campground Road.... Either way, ill have my phone with me from now and and will take photos and call the park ranger.

Trail is good to go, minus the large vine that has been cut and is hanging....

[compacted_graphite]

Trail Conditions for Saturday, June 9, 2012: the trail is in good shape. The trail surface is excellent - not much dust, no moisture of any kind. The shrubery on the edge of the trail is getting shaggy. Some very minor adjustments to trees and vines were conducted today. There are no obstructions on the trail at this time. This TC found the trails to be amazingly bug free today, probably due to the nice breeze. Riders biking closer to early morning and evening may find skeeters on the prowl.

The official Trail Coordinator position on ad-hoc trimming is: Please, do as much as you can. We welcome the help. Please be safe if you undertake doing some sections - be aware of fast-moving traffic headed in your direction, maybe consider facing into traffic; wear some kind of eye and head protection if trimming branches above your head, and beware of poison ivy. Get to know PI by sight and avoid it like the plague.

With regard to equestrians on the trail, the TCs would like to know where horses and riders are seen (I have learned to identify the materials that the horses drop behind them), but what we would really like to do is learn if there is better signage that we can do to keep horses off the bike trail, and bikes off the horse trail. A great question might be: where did you enter the trail system at? Nothing can be gained by being confrontational with equestrians, but if we can gain some knowledge of trails and intersections that are inadequately marked, we'll get signage improved.

I did review the signage at the campground road intersection of the horse trail and the bike trail. I don't believe we could improve it unless we started using billboards. I saw horse leavings today on two mile hill, but I am not sure where they entered the bike trail.

[HiptonRadcliffIII]

The trail was awesome last night, but there is a crazy amount of orange paint out there (meaning: posion ivy) and it is starting to crowd the trail. make sure you wash your skin with soap and cold water after a ride. I don't think there is anyway you could avoid it all.
Also, there seemed to be more fresh *beep* on the 2 mile climb, I guess the horse feels much like the mountain biker after that first loose climb, oh *beep*! haha. it just sucks a greasy wet horse *beep* is in the first 1/3 of the hardest climb on the trail.

[c0nsumer]

I did review the signage at the campground road intersection of the horse trail and the bike trail. I don't believe we could improve it unless we started using billboards. I saw horse leavings today on two mile hill, but I am not sure where they entered the bike trail.

How about putting very brightly colored barriers between trees at ~8' height at the beginning of each section? Maybe a 2x4 bearing a sign and a bunch of yellow and blaze orange reflective checkerboard?

Or occasional cattle grates?

[PK]

If the park is on-board with a "gate" system, I'd be all for it.

Make them out of PT 4"x6"s.
Something like the overhead restrictions gates found at the entrances of parking structures.
Label the heck out of them. Post trail maps on them and make it obvious what's going on.

The hardest part may be how to build / locate them in such a way that they will be difficult to just walk around.....

Finding the proper locations sounds like something we still need to figure out? (Trail poacher point of entry)

Pete.

[Di_bear]

I noticed a fairly fresh occurrence of horse droppings on triple puke. That's NOT good since that hill could easily erode in a very bad way with equestrian traffic present. We stopped at the usual spot at the first road crossing and I noticed that the signs were on the near side of the road. I didn't notice anything on the side of the road where you would enter the trail.

I second keeping it civil. Most equestrians don't understand how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers. The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them. Encourage friendly dialogue so you can educate. If you act like a jackass, then expect them to walk away with about as much sympathy as you would afford someone who acted like a jackass toward you. My suggestion would be to ask them if they are lost and go from there.

Regarding my ride tonight, I almost ran over a little chippy who was hanging out in the middle of the trail. He looked distressed and wasn't moving, although he was certainly alive and breathing. He wouldn't move when I tried to guide him off the trail with my foot, so I got a piece of bark to use as a spatula and some little fat sticks to keep him on it. Moved him off the trail only about a foot and a half. I hate seeing stuff like that.

[utabintarbo]

I noticed a fairly fresh occurrence of horse droppings on triple puke. That's NOT good since that hill could easily erode in a very bad way with equestrian traffic present. We stopped at the usual spot at the first road crossing and I noticed that the signs were on the near side of the road. I didn't notice anything on the side of the road where you would enter the trail.

I second keeping it civil. Most equestrians don't understand how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers. The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them. Encourage friendly dialogue so you can educate. If you act like a jackass, then expect them to walk away with about as much sympathy as you would afford someone who acted like a jackass toward you. My suggestion would be to ask them if they are lost and go from there.

So the variable-pressure land mine idea isn't a go?

[KLydesdale]

FWIW, the Pontiac Lake Horseman's Association had a campout/ride at PLRA this weekend. So there were more equestrians out there than usual.

[Builder-Bill]

On Sat. I found a guy that had crashed at the 3 mile mark. He was pretty badly hurt, having trouble moving his legs. I called 911 fire department had to carry him out on a back board .
If anyone knows how he is doing, let me know.
The guys name was Matt, that all I know.
Bill
Milford Trail and Proud lake TC

[trebron]

Horse $hit at miles 2,4,5 & 6

Regarding my ride tonight, I almost ran over a little chippy who was hanging out in the middle of the trail. He looked distressed and wasn't moving, although he was certainly alive and breathing. He wouldn't move when I tried to guide him off the trail with my foot, so I got a piece of bark to use as a spatula and some little fat sticks to keep him on it. Moved him off the trail only about a foot and a half. I hate seeing stuff like that.

one dead chipmunk aboot 1.5 miles in

[dirt]

Most equestrians don't care how riding mountain bike trails ruins it for the mountain bikers.

Fixed that for you.

The horse *beep* argument really isn't a good one. You need to give them better reason, such as the erosion issue, and the fact that the mountain bikers are the ones who pay for the trails *and* maintain them.

How about the "These trails aren't open to horse" reason? Should be pretty a pretty good reason.

[b_b]

Or a loud air-horn could give them a good reason...