Poto: Potawatomi

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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Geff » April 6th, 2011, 1:11 pm

barrybs wrote:
Thinair wrote:What I want to know is why someone would rake or blow all the leaves off the trail and remove rocks from the first few miles??? Seems a bit too invasive. I kinda expect to see leaves and some light debris in a trail through the woods. Leaves fill in the trail scars and help to prevent erosion, they also look good. The removed rocks hold the soil and prevent further erosion, I expect new rocks will be exposed as the soil runs off the newly exposed areas because of this. Just didn't make sense to me. It also must have taken HOURS unless it was done by machine which also seems a little too invasive. Sigh...


We've been trying to figure out who did the "trail maintenance". It doesn't appear to be anyone affiliated with the MMBA. I'm the trail adopter from the start of the trail to flat rock hill and I don't believe in blowing leaves and would never remove a rock or root from the trail. All I do is remove deadfall and brush out the sides of the trail. Maybe it's the same person that paints numbers on the trees with blue paint. :x
Barry


You know...I can ask some of the trail running groups if they have a clue, if you would like me to keep with the inquiries.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby G.Cook » April 6th, 2011, 1:29 pm

You know...I can ask some of the trail running groups if they have a clue, if you would like me to keep with the inquiries.

Please do . We suspect it is a runner(s) because they seem like timed splits . The DNR has tried to over paint them with camo paint but the blue dotter doesn't seem to get the message or doesn't care .
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Geff » April 6th, 2011, 9:24 pm

G.Cook wrote:
You know...I can ask some of the trail running groups if they have a clue, if you would like me to keep with the inquiries.

Please do . We suspect it is a runner(s) because they seem like timed splits . The DNR has tried to over paint them with camo paint but the blue dotter doesn't seem to get the message or doesn't care .


Right on. I'll get on this tomorrow and post what has been happening on the Poto Trail Runners page, as well as message the Dark Siders group who are from the Howell/Lansing/Jackson area. Lastly, I'll contact the "Head Goat" himself at Running Fit and alert him to what has been going on. Hopefully this will be able to root out the culprit(s) and we can encourage and educate them on how their "Trail Maintenance Program" is actually hurting the trail more than helping.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby b_b » April 6th, 2011, 10:09 pm

I just don't get that. If they want a smooth surface there's PLENTY of PAVEMENT!
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Geff » April 6th, 2011, 10:39 pm

b_b wrote:I just don't get that. If they want a smooth surface there's PLENTY of PAVEMENT!


Or dirt roads....That is pretty funny though. Hopefully, I can help bridge between Mt Bikers and Trail Runners. Both are very great groups of folks to hang with and share the outdoors.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby SteveF » April 7th, 2011, 6:50 am

I wonder if this trail smoothing banditry is related to the recent trend of riding fully rigid bikes? (no offense to those that can rock it on rigid but I know I couldn't and I know not everyone can!)
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Paul Brown » April 7th, 2011, 6:58 am

SteveF wrote:I wonder if this trail smoothing banditry is related to the recent trend of riding fully rigid bikes? (no offense to those that can rock it on rigid but I know I couldn't and I know not everyone can!)


No f'in way :evil:
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby tadraper » April 7th, 2011, 8:24 am

no way someone riding a RIGID would have done that.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby cmkovick » April 7th, 2011, 8:35 am

Paul Brown wrote:
SteveF wrote:I wonder if this trail smoothing banditry is related to the recent trend of riding fully rigid bikes? (no offense to those that can rock it on rigid but I know I couldn't and I know not everyone can!)


No f'in way :evil:


No hack here. I know for myself and others I ride (rigid) with we don't mess with the built in obstacles, that is what makes the Poto the Poto. A fallen tree or branch yes, but not rocks, roots or leaves.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby SteveF » April 7th, 2011, 8:35 am

I'm sure you guys are right--it was the first thing that popped in my head when I wondered who would want a smoother trail...
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Crazy XC Ski Trail Groomer

Postby adroit rider » April 7th, 2011, 10:11 am

Leaf and rock removal is from that crazy XC skier who also took out the left hand turn, step up root around mile 3/4 last year. Dude is crazy and should be locked up. Profile - white, fast skiier, local, keeps to himself, gets high off premium ski wax, races skis.

He must be local or else he wouldn't invest so much into grooming the trail to his liking.

He only focuses on the eight and five mile loops. We need to find this guy and get gim stopped before he does more damage. Solar powered 3G Video Cameras with live streaming on MMBA.org?
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Geff » April 7th, 2011, 12:01 pm

I just made a lengthy post on the Poto Trail Runners Facebook page, as well as a blast email went out to the Darksiders trail running group, who are there just about every weekend. Lastly, I emailed all the info and message to the "Head Goat" himself about this issue. That is about it for the trail runners who use the Poto on a consistent basis. They will be vigilant alongside us and the Park officials.

So you are sure this rouge XCountry skier dude is the one who is responsible for these destructive practices? If so, at least that is a big step in the right direction to get him educated.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby adroit rider » April 7th, 2011, 1:07 pm

Geff wrote:So you are sure this rouge XCountry skier dude is the one who is responsible for these destructive practices? If so, at least that is a big step in the right direction to get him educated.


I am not 100% sure but all the work being done benefits only one user group: XC skier. Leaves on the trail create an unstable base, trap heat, and work their way up into the top layer of snow all winter. Skiing on leaves sucks as it is like sand paper. Rocks force you to take risks to maintain speed or stop completely to navigate. That step up root was super technical at speed on XC skies. Think how fast you would approach that root on a bike and the skill it required to jump the root and make that left hand turn; it was one of the best features of the trail for a mtb. On skis, your base would hit the root, you would lose traction, lunge forward and maybe face plant!

All the work being done is logical if the goal is to make an XC ski track.

Not to point fingers, but I would start with all the guys who did the Poto Raid. They might not be the ones but my guess is they know or have seen the culprit.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby Geff » April 7th, 2011, 1:26 pm

adroit rider wrote:
Geff wrote:So you are sure this rouge XCountry skier dude is the one who is responsible for these destructive practices? If so, at least that is a big step in the right direction to get him educated.


I am not 100% sure but all the work being done benefits only one user group: XC skier. Leaves on the trail create an unstable base, trap heat, and work their way up into the top layer of snow all winter. Skiing on leaves sucks as it is like sand paper. Rocks force you to take risks to maintain speed or stop completely to navigate. That step up root was super technical at speed on XC skies. Think how fast you would approach that root on a bike and the skill it required to jump the root and make that left hand turn; it was one of the best features of the trail for a mtb. On skis, your base would hit the root, you would lose traction, lunge forward and maybe face plant!

All the work being done is logical if the goal is to make an XC ski track.

Not to point fingers, but I would start with all the guys who did the Poto Raid. They might not be the ones but my guess is they know or have seen the culprit.


That sounds reasonable. But folks have been XCountry skiing there for years and years. I will also check in with a pal who live right next to Brighton Rec and bikes/skis there about everyday to see if he knows anything about someone blowing or raking the leaves off of the trail. Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Poto: Potawatomi

Postby adroit rider » April 7th, 2011, 7:40 pm

I just got back from riding the trail and to me it looked like the leaf blowing and rock removal happened recently, after the thaw. If this is the case then I doubt an XC skier would blow leafs. The skier would do it in November or December.

It is odd.

The leaf blowing cleared enough path to traverse two abreast and the skier motive could be to create a trail ideal for two abreast classic skiing. It could also be a runner who wants to create a trail for two abreast running/hiking. This is a stretch and I am not sure if I can confidently say the work was done to benefit skiing.

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