Question about Pizza cutters...

[spokeywheeler]

So I've been hearing a lot of "rut rage" here on the board lately. I know that regardless of how many signs you put up & try to educate the general public as well as supporters of local mountain biking, people are gonna do what they want to do and play in the mud. This year I plan on doing some volunteer work, but have never worked on a trail before. My question is, what is the process for repairing this damage - what kinds of tools are needed?

[c0nsumer]

So I've been hearing a lot of "rut rage" here on the board lately. I know that regardless of how many signs you put up & try to educate the general public as well as supporters of local mountain biking, people are gonna do what they want to do and play in the mud. This year I plan on doing some volunteer work, but have never worked on a trail before. My question is, what is the process for repairing this damage - what kinds of tools are needed?

I personally think the easiest thing to do is, come spring, wait until the mud is thickening up to something like the consistency of modeling clay or Play-Doh, then just walk on the ridges and press them into the crevices. You can pretty much erase most bad pizza cutters this way.

[Mack]

The method and timing that c0nsumer mentioned is spot on. I have also used a tamping tool and
find they work nice. You just don't want to carry to far as they are a bit heavy.

[spokeywheeler]

Hmmm, not as bad as I thought. I was thinking cultivator or pick-axe, dig it all up & tamp it down.

[i69whitey]

how about a fat tire group ride right around when the mud is firming up?
10 lbs air pressure max, 3.5 inch minimum tread width

short rant - stony was terrible looking under the snow
have shovel - will dig

[mntn-biker]

Yep, pizza cutters are crap. This is usually my favorite local trail in the spring, summer, and fall. I thought I'd hit it one frigid morning last week (the trail and ruts were frozen rock hard) and this is what greeted me after passing 2 of these signs:



and then as I approached the 3rd sign this really set me off:



This is an area that never usually has a problem with water sitting on it since it is clay and the trail is sloped and sheds water nicely. This is why I wish people would resist the temptation to ride in the winter on a nice balmy 50 degree day after we've been in a deep freeze for a long time. I only rode a portion of this trail this day since it was so rough on a fully rigid ss and I'm afraid that probably 75% of this 9.5 mile trail looks like this

[cramer]

Keep in mind, fixing the actual pizza cutter marks is really not that big of a deal. They will largely sort of fix themselves later in the spring / summer as people ride on them. What sucks about them is the time between now and then.

1) They make for bad riding when frozen as mntn-biker pointed out.
2) They create erosion problems as they allow water to "flow" in the rut when it rains.
3) People often ride around them, widening the trail.

I try not to get too worked up about this though as I think it's so unlikely that we'll ever get 100% education / compliance and we'll generally just see this type of thing every year.

[Hench]

If your worried about spots that don't seem to fix themselves during spring, then one thing I started doing a few years back was to find smooth pieces of dead fall and embed them into the mud perpendicular to the direction of the trail during the spring. I would also mix in dead grass and leaves and place them on top of this pseudo "bridge" of sticks then walk and ride over this patch till the mud started to ooze through the structure and create an even smooth trail. I have only done this in sections which I knew would cause continual issues like puddles, extremely deep ruts, and low spots.

(think skid road but submerged)
I find the patch will usually last a few seasons, first ones from spring of 2010 are still holding up to the abuse and there aren't puddles or ruts in those areas anymore. If done right they wont even be noticeable as all the material gets covered by dirt which can now drain easier and is supported thanks to the dead fall. One thing to keep in mind when doing this is make sure you pick dead fall without small branches or obviously thorns that might cause punctures. Also make sure all pieces become submerged and cemented into the earth or else they could break while riding over them and fly up into someones drive train. One thing that's great about this kind of repair is it requires no tools and there is usually plenty of the materials needed within 10ft of most Michigan trails, namely small diameter dead fall and other dead fibrous organic material to firm up the mud.

[irishpitbull]

On clay trails pizza cutters are terrible and last a long time before they are naturally wore down.

Sand is mostly fixed before warm weather rolls around. Having been heavy involved with trail maintenance over the last 6 years, I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

[spokeywheeler]

I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

I couldn't agree more. The main reason why I mountain bike is to be kept on my toes by changing terrain. Sure smooth trails are nice, but not much of a challenge.

[c0nsumer]

I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

I couldn't agree more. The main reason why I mountain bike is to be kept on my toes by changing terrain. Sure smooth trails are nice, but not much of a challenge.

The thing is, too many ruts are absolutely miserable to ride on. As in, not just a challenge but seriously frustrating to the point where people will widen the trail around them.

[dirt]

Having been heavy involved with trail maintenance over the last 6 years, I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

The issue with pizza cutters isn't riding them, it's the damage the cause to the trail. In an obviously wet area, they help channel water off the trail, taking top soil and the trail bed itself off the trail. That causes more water retention, more pizza cutters, rinse repeat. It's the start of bad erosion problems that lead to future trail repairs.

The big mud holes often start as a soggy area with pizza cutters.

[irishpitbull]

Having been heavy involved with trail maintenance over the last 6 years, I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

The issue with pizza cutters isn't riding them, it's the damage the cause to the trail. In an obviously wet area, they help channel water off the trail, taking top soil and the trail bed itself off the trail. That causes more water retention, more pizza cutters, rinse repeat. It's the start of bad erosion problems that lead to future trail repairs.

The big mud holes often start as a soggy area with pizza cutters.

I agree a bit with you on this, but a lot has to do with poor design, Mayburry for instance has mud holes everywhere. This is not do to pizza cutters this is due to poor design and of lack maintenance. This is a problem with a lot of trails in our area, water shedding was not baked in with the trail design.

Some of the soggy areas at Pontiac could be attributed to pizza cutters or the fact the trail runs right down the middle swampy low area. The trail in that area is not burmed properly, as the trail wears from normal use, the trail area becomes the lower area trapping water in. Also the steep climbs have no water bars, this is WAY more of problem then pizza cutters in regards to erosion.

I agree the PC's are a way to start erosion but proper trail design could help limit their impact. Also blaming people riding in the wet for the trails problems is a false accusation.

I think before we scold people about riding in the wet, the organization should make sure its doing everything it can to prevent erosion from trail building stand point.

[Spinwheel]

Having been heavy involved with trail maintenance over the last 6 years, I personally I don't ride when its soft and muddy but I think the whole pizza cutter thing is over blown. If you want smooth glass like surface get a road bike.

The issue with pizza cutters isn't riding them, it's the damage the cause to the trail. In an obviously wet area, they help channel water off the trail, taking top soil and the trail bed itself off the trail. That causes more water retention, more pizza cutters, rinse repeat. It's the start of bad erosion problems that lead to future trail repairs.

The big mud holes often start as a soggy area with pizza cutters.

I agree a bit with you on this, but a lot has to do with poor design, Mayburry for instance has mud holes everywhere. This is not do to pizza cutters this is due to poor design and of lack maintenance. This is a problem with a lot of trails in our area, water shedding was not baked in with the trail design.

Some of the soggy areas at Pontiac could be attributed to pizza cutters or the fact the trail runs right down the middle swampy low area. The trail in that area is not burmed properly, as the trail wears from normal use, the trail area becomes the lower area trapping water in. Also the steep climbs have no water bars, this is WAY more of problem then pizza cutters in regards to erosion.

I agree the PC's are a way to start erosion but proper trail design could help limit their impact. Also blaming people riding in the wet for the trails problems is a false accusation.

I think before we scold people about riding in the wet, the organization should make sure its doing everything it can to prevent erosion from trail building stand point.

I think you're technically correct. The problem with trail maintenance that I see relates to the 80/20 rule. There are way more people who ride trails than fix them - and I'm speaking of SE Michigan. If the 80% fixed trails and made them textbook perfect, we wouldn't have any sand-pit issues in SE Michigan. Therefor, as I see it, wet trails should be closed to riding to prevent ANY AND ALL erosion damage that pizza cutters lead to. Personally I used to put in over 50 hours a year, but quite honestly, I like to ride my bike so I've cut back. If I can convince someone to stay off the trail when wet, I just saved the organization time doing maintenance. Its that simple.

[AllMountin']

Pizza cutters are *not* the way to add challenge to terrain. They are a threat to our access rights everywhere. They encourage other trail users to protest and put pressure on land managers. It's hard to read the signs posted at Luton as anything but a threat to our access. Stay off the trail when wet, in order to preserve your 'right' to the trail at all. Ignore the signs if you want, but we will all pay the price for your judgment.

Would you post those pics on MTBR or Singletracks to promote your local trail? Of course not, unless you aim to keep people away. Flow is a nearly universal positive trait for a trail to have. There is no flow on rutted trails. Slow, choppy tread sucks, unless designed to be such(like in rock gardens and tech sections). Pizza cutters are the devil.