Fat Bike Trail Ethics

[Scotty]

the premise of this thread is complete and utter nonsense.

Namely, that it's the fault of cyclists (their own actions) that are to blame for the banishment of cyclists from public spaces (trails, parks, streets, etc.). this is the fallacious argument that the haters of bicycles have always used, and somehow over the past 3 decades it has infected one cycling advocacy group after another.

If I ride LEGALLY and some ignorant POS uses me as an excuse to ban ME from a public space, it is not my fault and it's not my responsibility to avoid *beep* off said ignoramous.

The issue of land access for bikes has never had much at all to do with bad cyclists. But it has everything to do with the hoarding of public spaces by a minority of user groups. If every fat bike owner in the state was a saint and never broke a single rule the reaction of other user groups that promote an exclusionary land use doctrine will be exaclty the same. As soon as they see bikes they will want them gone. And all the kumbayas in the world won't do a thing to stop them.

I will never ask forgiveness for riding my bike. And I won't participate in the "blame the biker" mentality. Especially when it's coming from cyclists themselves.

[Scotty]

I find all the concern over groomed trail riding kind of ridiculous, since more and more resorts are now welcoming Fat Bikes onto their trails, and even advertising the fact that their trails are open to Fat Bikes. It's happening out west and it's happening here in Michigan. It's not all that different from the early days of Snowboarding, when the ski resorts that welcomed boarders reaped the benefits of their business. Go up to the UP, There's even a fat bike category at the Noquemanon this year.

[RickPlite]

This is getting all blown out of proportion. I have even had people ask me why I hate Fat Bikes. Well I don't! I even have one on order.

Read Mikes sentence again:

"If we start riding our fat bikes on trails closed to bikes, over fragile environments, on groomed ski trails or private beaches - we will negate all the hard work and progress that the bike advocacy folks have made since 1986."

All we are saying is use common sense, don't ride Fat Bikes in areas you would not ride your regular bike.

I mentioned on Facebook that our trails at Luton now have fat tire prints in the mud along with the skinny tire tracks. I am not calling out Fat Bike riders for making the mess. All bike riders riding skinny or fat tires should not ride muddy trails. "Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

[jnwbiker]

Totally off topic, but you finally made me switch off "Display Signatures". If you were making a point in your post, I have no idea what it was as your sig made me move on before reading. I suppose you're trying to annoy someone with it. If so, it works.

Signature Officially Banned By The IMBA/MMBA

jw

[jajones]

If a Fat Bike rolls through the woods, but doesn't leave tracks, was it really there?

[Di_bear]

Regarding what Scotty said about ski places allowing fat biking, this is very true, but allow me to use Michigan Tech as one example. They are allowing fat bikes on specific trails, not all. Traditionally, people have hiked and dog-walked on about two or three of the green loops, but not all.

While "alternative sports" are sometimes allowed, it is usually within reason and often limited access.

[i69whitey]

Regarding what Scotty said about ski places allowing fat biking, this is very true, but allow me to use Michigan Tech as one example. They are allowing fat bikes on specific trails, not all. Traditionally, people have hiked and dog-walked on about two or three of the green loops, but not all.

While "alternative sports" are sometimes allowed, it is usually within reason and often limited access.

...so it's just like riding a bike!

[KitC]

Regarding what Scotty said about ski places allowing fat biking, this is very true, but allow me to use Michigan Tech as one example. They are allowing fat bikes on specific trails, not all. Traditionally, people have hiked and dog-walked on about two or three of the green loops, but not all.

While "alternative sports" are sometimes allowed, it is usually within reason and often limited access.

I assume you've been keeping up with the emails that make it clear this current restriction is only in place for this season, at which point they will reconsider based on the impact the ski trails see this season. It's also worth noting that the Tech ski trails are homologated for international competition (there's only 6 such trails nationwide), so we're not talking about your average neighborhood trails. I was out on those multi-use trails yesterday with my kids and saw much more evidence of snowshoeing than biking, despite all the peer pressure from James, Pat, Chris, Brett...

I think, but am not sure, that the ski trails at the Porkies and even Swedetown are more open to the fat bike set.

[jajones]

As far as I'm concerned, people who snowshoe on xc ski trails are the devil. They are like people who walk in xc skis. Snowshoes were created to provide float so that you don't sink in the snow. Packed and groomed xc ski trails are not the place for snowshoes trashing corduroy and tracks. They are meant to bash through deep snow, so for God's sake, get off the trail and into the powder. As far as Fat Bikes go, unless they are riding on formally groomed tracks for classic xc, I don't see where it is a problem.

[SteveF]

As far as I'm concerned, people who snowshoe on xc ski trails are the devil. They are like people who walk in xc skis. Snowshoes were created to provide float so that you don't sink in the snow. Packed and groomed xc ski trails are not the place for snowshoes trashing corduroy and tracks. They are meant to bash through deep snow, so for God's sake, get off the trail and into the powder. As far as Fat Bikes go, unless they are riding on formally groomed tracks for classic xc, I don't see where it is a problem.

I always get a kick out of the snoeshoe-ers shuffling along next to the X-country ski tracks at my local county park. There's like 4 inches of snow but they bought them shoe-rackets and they're by golly gonna use 'em!

[RickPlite]

As far as Fat Bikes go, unless they are riding on formally groomed tracks for classic xc, I don't see where it is a problem.

exactly what I am saying. Although I don't think skate skiers would like the bike tracks on their lane either but If the Ski Area allows Fat Bikes on the course so be it and have at it.

[Nelg]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Wrong. This is coming from a skate skier. Also, consider that classic skiers don't like me skating over their tracks.

What's "wrong"? A Nordic ski area was opened to fat bikes. Who the article comes from skate or xc skier has no bearing. Maybe I missed something?
XC skiers cry when one so much as looks at their tracks. That I know.
My fatbike with tires aired down to 3-5 psi barely leaves a trace.

I'm saying that fat bikes also negatively affect the snow on the trail. It's really crappy of other user groups to go out there and greatly minimize the opportunity for skiers to use freshly-groomed tracks/trails. The real crapper is that in many places, the skiers pay for passes to fund that grooming, yet many of them never get to truly enjoy it.

, might as well let the horses on *our* trails.

Fat bikes typically leave no more of a mark than a skate ski does on groomed trails, often less when the temps are well below freezing. Loosing balance, putting a foot down or crashing would be an exception though.

There is a huge misconception about the impact of them on trails, but rather than poach the trails we should be working with those that manage and groom the trails to come up with an acceptable use policy. Keep in mind that XC skiers often donate or buy passes to keep trails groomed, bikes should be no different from a financial aspect as well.

[Di_bear]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Wrong. This is coming from a skate skier. Also, consider that classic skiers don't like me skating over their tracks.

What's "wrong"? A Nordic ski area was opened to fat bikes. Who the article comes from skate or xc skier has no bearing. Maybe I missed something?
XC skiers cry when one so much as looks at their tracks. That I know.
My fatbike with tires aired down to 3-5 psi barely leaves a trace.

I'm saying that fat bikes also negatively affect the snow on the trail. It's really crappy of other user groups to go out there and greatly minimize the opportunity for skiers to use freshly-groomed tracks/trails. The real crapper is that in many places, the skiers pay for passes to fund that grooming, yet many of them never get to truly enjoy it.

, might as well let the horses on *our* trails.

Fat bikes typically leave no more of a mark than a skate ski does on groomed trails, often less when the temps are well below freezing. Loosing balance, putting a foot down or crashing would be an exception though.

There is a huge misconception about the impact of them on trails, but rather than poach the trails we should be working with those that manage and groom the trails to come up with an acceptable use policy. Keep in mind that XC skiers often donate or buy passes to keep trails groomed, bikes should be no different from a financial aspect as well.

Totally not denying that, but I bolded the very important part of my post for clarification. Skiers pay for groomed trails. I feel it's not the right of other user groups to minimize that opportunity. A used trail is still a used trail.

[mr_opjones]

Stay off my lawn!

[dirt]

Totally not denying that, but I bolded the very important part of my post for clarification. Skiers pay for groomed trails. I feel it's not the right of other user groups to minimize that opportunity. A used trail is still a used trail.

Yes, but MTBers often BUILD their own trails, and the land managers and providers of grants often recognize the thousands of dollars labor as cash put toward the projects.

While many groups pay fees to support the maintaining of their trails, MTBers actually build their trails, and the investment of time/money into that trail building should be recognized.

i.e., the money that other groups put toward their trails in no way should be viewed as any more important then the investment of time AND money that MTBers put toward building their trails. Nor should one group have access that is viewed as more important then any others group right to access the trails.

There are MANY trails systems available to skiers that do not allow MTB at any time of the year. Even places like Stony Creek only share about 1/2 of the XC Ski system with MTBers, the rest is exclusive to XC skiers.