Fat Bike Trail Ethics

[Sortaslow]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Interesting article. I watched the video and the ski trail they rode is a lot different from the sort of groomed XC trail that would be an issue 'round here. Where they literally groom ski tracks into a narrow trail.

Note the tracks this gentleman is skiing in:



In this pic, there is room to the side for skate skiing and perhaps fat biking but most of the groomed ski trails I see 'round about here are basically singletrack with room for the groomed in tracks and not much else. If you can't ride (or walk) without messing up those tracks, you're gonna create issues...

The groomed trail I've seen around here is double track, and not single.

I don't know. I ride in the snow machine center track, and not the ski track. If needed off to the side. Why can't people do that and prevent issues. I guess one bad apple.....


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[Sortaslow]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Wrong. This is coming from a skate skier. Also, consider that classic skiers don't like me skating over their tracks.

What's "wrong"? A Nordic ski area was opened to fat bikes. Who the article comes from skate or xc skier has no bearing. Maybe I missed something?
XC skiers cry when one so much as looks at their tracks. That I know.
My fatbike with tires aired down to 3-5 psi barely leaves a trace.

[jalopy jockey]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Wrong. This is coming from a skate skier. Also, consider that classic skiers don't like me skating over their tracks.

I finally figure out what it is that is wrong about you you have the wrong skis.

[mtbfree]

Odd that the dog walkers around here have no issues with walking on (or even crapping on) said groomed trails.

Most other trail user groups aren't as considerate of others as we mountain bikers. We're known collectively for our excellent trail manners, safety and respect for other trail users. Just check some hiking message boards on the Internet and you'll see the love they have for us. It's unfair to hold dog walkers to the same high standards that our entire group adheres to.

[Di_bear]

http://xxcmag.com/archives/4318

The whole stay off the ski trail thing doesn't fit with fatbikes . Old thinking. Be a little more progressive in your thinking. Realize there is a considerable difference with fat bikes vs skinnies.

Wrong. This is coming from a skate skier. Also, consider that classic skiers don't like me skating over their tracks.

What's "wrong"? A Nordic ski area was opened to fat bikes. Who the article comes from skate or xc skier has no bearing. Maybe I missed something?
XC skiers cry when one so much as looks at their tracks. That I know.
My fatbike with tires aired down to 3-5 psi barely leaves a trace.

I'm saying that fat bikes also negatively affect the snow on the trail. It's really crappy of other user groups to go out there and greatly minimize the opportunity for skiers to use freshly-groomed tracks/trails. The real crapper is that in many places, the skiers pay for passes to fund that grooming, yet many of them never get to truly enjoy it.

*beep*, might as well let the horses on *our* trails.

[Steve_Balogh]

I don't ski, but it looks to me like different places use different methods to groom trails. Personally I don't like riding groomed trails. Places like Commerce, Novi, Olson, Morty-T, etc that have no snowmobiles and no grooming make snow riding more fun. I get a lot of satisfaction grooming the trails myself, than have a machine do it for me. Since I bought my first Fatbike some five years ago, I find myself riding ILRA less, other than to head out to the gravel pit for some hills. When I look at some of these pics on groomed trails, looks to me like a normal bike could handle them, at most with some Snowcat-sized rims.

[Sortaslow]

I don't ski, but it looks to me like different places use different methods to groom trails. Personally I don't like riding groomed trails. Places like Commerce, Novi, Olson, Morty-T, etc that have no snowmobiles and no grooming make snow riding more fun. I get a lot of satisfaction grooming the trails myself, than have a machine do it for me. Since I bought my first Fatbike some five years ago, I find myself riding ILRA less, other than to head out to the gravel pit for some hills. When I look at some of these pics on groomed trails, looks to me like a normal bike could handle them, at most with some Snowcat-sized rims.

Yes, completely agree. Problem is trails like stony somewhat force some groomed trail riding so you can hit the singletrack. There are some ways around it, but it depends where you came from and where you want to go next.
I see very, very little xc activity on the single at Stony. Mostly the pines. Seen ski tracks on the coaster twice in 4 years. Regardless, the park does not groom the singletrack at Stony.

[c0nsumer]

I see very, very little xc activity on the single at Stony. Mostly the pines. Seen ski tracks on the coaster twice in 4 years. Regardless, the park does not groom the singletrack at Stony.

This is because The Pines is twisty so it kinda sucks on skis, and the Roller Coaster just isn't enjoyable. I'd consider these (+ The Snake) all fair game in winter. For connecting them on two track, I'd just do my best to stay off to the side and away from the tracks. Having groomed (or even well worn in) tracks is really nice, and I wouldn't want to ruin that.

[Sortaslow]

I see very, very little xc activity on the single at Stony. Mostly the pines. Seen ski tracks on the coaster twice in 4 years. Regardless, the park does not groom the singletrack at Stony.

This is because The Pines is twisty so it kinda sucks on skis, and the Roller Coaster just isn't enjoyable. I'd consider these (+ The Snake) all fair game in winter. For connecting them on two track, I'd just do my best to stay off to the side and away from the tracks. Having groomed (or even well worn in) tracks is really nice, and I wouldn't want to ruin that.

I am always very surprised people xc ski the singletrack there. Seems like it be miserable.

[c0nsumer]

I see very, very little xc activity on the single at Stony. Mostly the pines. Seen ski tracks on the coaster twice in 4 years. Regardless, the park does not groom the singletrack at Stony.

This is because The Pines is twisty so it kinda sucks on skis, and the Roller Coaster just isn't enjoyable. I'd consider these (+ The Snake) all fair game in winter. For connecting them on two track, I'd just do my best to stay off to the side and away from the tracks. Having groomed (or even well worn in) tracks is really nice, and I wouldn't want to ruin that.

I am always very surprised people xc ski the singletrack there. Seems like it be miserable.

I've done it to try it. The Pines is kinda neat, and worth doing to see the trail when there's a bunch of snow on the ground. I started going up the Roller Coaster backward and it was just too steep to be enjoyable. I'm sure that if there's the opportunity to ski this winter I'll go through The Pines again.

[Sortaslow]

I suck at xc skiing. I can't imagine doing the coaster or snake either way!

[Steve_Kinley]

I've done it to try it. The Pines is kinda neat, and worth doing to see the trail when there's a bunch of snow on the ground. I started going up the Roller Coaster backward and it was just too steep to be enjoyable. I'm sure that if there's the opportunity to ski this winter I'll go through The Pines again.

Come out and ski the LOHS course. It can be very exciting on skinnies!

[c0nsumer]

I've done it to try it. The Pines is kinda neat, and worth doing to see the trail when there's a bunch of snow on the ground. I started going up the Roller Coaster backward and it was just too steep to be enjoyable. I'm sure that if there's the opportunity to ski this winter I'll go through The Pines again.

Come out and ski the LOHS course. It can be very exciting on skinnies!

Ha. The hills in The Pines were exciting enough! I'll stick to a bike for LOHS.

[KLydesdale]

I suck at xc skiing. I can't imagine doing the coaster or snake either way!

I've never developed the skills needed to confidently negotiate downhills and twists on a trail like that on XC skis (and probably never will with the back and knee problem I now have). But I have friends who make it look easy.

A couple of years ago during a winter bike ride at PLRA when the snow condtions were deep and nice and packed enough for me to be able to keep a steady pace with my Try-All snow wheels, I came across a guy skiing on the section of the trail before and after the "two mile climb". It was amazing to see how well he negotiated all the downhills, turns and uphills in that section. He was just as confident and in control on his skis as I was on my bike. The only place I had an edge on him was on the climbs where I could gear down. If there had not been line of snow packed down by previous riders for me to follow, he would have kicked my butt on the climbs and everywhere else.

Funny though.... he never once complained about the tire tracks on the trail nor did they seem to bother his style either.


It's funny but one of the main reasons I got into skate skiing is because of all the classic skiers out there who really don't know what they're doing and just kind of clomp around on their skis in the two tracks set for them. Some of those same people will ruin those tracks by stepping all over them with their skis, mashing them in with their poles and pull chunks of snow out of the bottoms with their ill-prepared no-wax skis. But they will get upset if I should happen to let the tips of my skating ski cross those tracks.

Since some skiers ruin groomed ski trails, perhaps we should ban them too....

[KLydesdale]

I don't ski, but it looks to me like different places use different methods to groom trails. Personally I don't like riding groomed trails. Places like Commerce, Novi, Olson, Morty-T, etc that have no snowmobiles and no grooming make snow riding more fun. I get a lot of satisfaction grooming the trails myself, than have a machine do it for me. Since I bought my first Fatbike some five years ago, I find myself riding ILRA less, other than to head out to the gravel pit for some hills. When I look at some of these pics on groomed trails, looks to me like a normal bike could handle them, at most with some Snowcat-sized rims.

I've actually had the opportunity to ride my Curtlo "snow bike" with 47 mm Try-All rims and 2.5 tires on trails that were groomed similar to what is shown in the video. For the last couple of years, in an effort to keep foot traffic off the XC ski trails, Independence Oaks has been using their packer/groomer on the 2.2 River loop there and asking that hikers and dog-walkers use that trail instead of the other ones they pack, groom wide skating lanes and set classic tracks. Since the River loop is paved trail that's normally legally open to bicycles, they don't mind if I take my bike on them in the winter. When the snow was firmly packed I could move along pretty well. But when we've gotten substantial snowfalls and the snow would not pack down as well, I had a LOT of issues keeping moving.