IMBA: Possible new direction for the MMBA

[dauber76]

I also tried to pull minutes from board meetings to understand what was causing the jobs to be so time intensive. Dauber was nice enough to pm me a couple times to help me get a grasp on the situation but the minutes were less helpful because they are not up to date for the last 7 months. So I am still in the dark.

As for not getting our latest meeting minutes posted, I apologize. I will work with the webmasters to get that remedied. Beware, these aren't word-by-word transcripts of what was said at our meetings. This thread has the most up-to-date info on what our discussions have been and why we think this is a viable solution.

[YetiDad]

Chris,

I should have stated that the goals or mission of the group currently were hard to pin done because they seemed to be very numerous. I was not looking for the mission statement I found that myself. What I was talking about was more what is the MMBA focused on at this point. Your honesty as to the fragmented nature of things was very helpful.

My one question is why are you putting the cart before the horse. For all intents and purposes if the chapters leave MMBA to become IMBA chapters then what role is the MMBA playing. To a lot of people this should have been figured out before putting it to the chapters to join up with IMBA. The idea that an entity that has accomplished so much may just disappear is disheartening at best and makes people angry at worst. While I understand that a lot of the issues of trail maintenance and construction happen at the chapter level, the big picture stuff happens at the state level and I wonder how IMBA, with their limited resources and manpower are really going to be able to support state level issues. If the chapters are no longer part of MMBA then where does state level manpower and financing come from.

Again I know the board is worn out and would like to just go ride their bikes. I am not trying to start anything, I am just trying to fill in some blanks that after 22 pages I still have.

Thanks.

[dauber76]

Chris,

I should have stated that the goals or mission of the group currently were hard to pin done because they seemed to be very numerous. I was not looking for the mission statement I found that myself. What I was talking about was more what is the MMBA focused on at this point. Your honesty as to the fragmented nature of things was very helpful.

My one question is why are you putting the cart before the horse. For all intents and purposes if the chapters leave MMBA to become IMBA chapters then what role is the MMBA playing. To a lot of people this should have been figured out before putting it to the chapters to join up with IMBA. The idea that an entity that has accomplished so much may just disappear is disheartening at best and makes people angry at worst. While I understand that a lot of the issues of trail maintenance and construction happen at the chapter level, the big picture stuff happens at the state level and I wonder how IMBA, with their limited resources and manpower are really going to be able to support state level issues. If the chapters are no longer part of MMBA then where does state level manpower and financing come from.

Again I know the board is worn out and would like to just go ride their bikes. I am not trying to start anything, I am just trying to fill in some blanks that after 22 pages I still have.

Thanks.

I know it is a lot to read, but read this whole thread. I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll say it again. The MMBA is not going anywhere. There will still be a state-level organization that will be dealing with state-wide advocacy issues. The state level manpower will still come from the same place as it does now. Current MMBA chapters will still be part of the state-wide MMBA, but the big benefit is many of the other cycling groups (Cherry Capital Cycling Club, Copper Harbor, Marquette, etc.) across the state may join with MMBA now.

[Nelg]

Chris,

I should have stated that the goals or mission of the group currently were hard to pin done because they seemed to be very numerous. I was not looking for the mission statement I found that myself. What I was talking about was more what is the MMBA focused on at this point. Your honesty as to the fragmented nature of things was very helpful.

My one question is why are you putting the cart before the horse. For all intents and purposes if the chapters leave MMBA to become IMBA chapters then what role is the MMBA playing. To a lot of people this should have been figured out before putting it to the chapters to join up with IMBA. The idea that an entity that has accomplished so much may just disappear is disheartening at best and makes people angry at worst. While I understand that a lot of the issues of trail maintenance and construction happen at the chapter level, the big picture stuff happens at the state level and I wonder how IMBA, with their limited resources and manpower are really going to be able to support state level issues. If the chapters are no longer part of MMBA then where does state level manpower and financing come from.

Again I know the board is worn out and would like to just go ride their bikes. I am not trying to start anything, I am just trying to fill in some blanks that after 22 pages I still have.

Thanks.

We totally appreciate your concerns on this and keeping state level advocacy alive is my biggest concern along with keeping the MMBA name around because it carries lots of weight with the DNRE and land managers.

If the chapters go IMBA, then the responsibilities of the state change from accounting, insurance, tax compliance, advocacy, etc. to just straight advocacy. The $15,000 a year trail building and general insurance policy that covers all chapters becomes a $800 liability insurance policy. The state level MMBA can then focus like a laser beam on advocacy in Lansing and get out of running a business. IMBA will be taking care of all the chapter business needs that the state used to manage. In turn, the cost of keeping the lights on gets cut dramatically. We figure the state level MMBA can run on $4,000 to $6,000 a year which can be funded via chapter affiliations, fund raisers, grants, and building up the annual meeting and Expo in to a profit source.

The MMBA will not go away if the membership and chapters want to see it kept alive and from everything I have heard, it's a big priority for everyone.

[dirt]

The MMBA will not go away if the membership and chapters want to see it kept alive and from everything I have heard, it's a big priority for everyone.

This. It couldn't be better said. The focus behind this is streamlining and preserving the MMBA, but focusing it back to it's original role, a state wide advocacy organization. It's really been the driving thought behind this whole process. The chapters just need some entity to manage their legal and financial heavy work, and the MMBA isn't doing a great job. IMBA can do better, and MMBA can narrow it's focus.

Quit the opposite of going away, the focus of this is the continuation of the MMBA.

[Di_bear]

We figure the state level MMBA can run on $4,000 to $6,000 a year which can be funded via chapter affiliations, fund raisers, grants, and building up the annual meeting and Expo in to a profit source.

Yes. In fact, I am already working on the expo with the idea of making it bigger and reaching out to many more vendors. I would love to see this be a nice source of funding for our state advocacy efforts. I already have two volunteers to help with the planning process!

Another thing that I've been working on is corporate sponsorships. IMBA does not share corporate sponsorship money with the chapters, so we plan to continue offering corporate sponsorships for the MMBA. Our corporate sponsors may continue to support advocacy at the state level.

I've revamped the corporate sponsorship packages and simplified them. We have already updated our system, but I am still working out the details of bringing the benefits to fruition, which will be unleashed sometime this month.

A common fear is how this will affect advocacy at the local level. I would like to point out that local advocacy has always been handled at the local level (your chapter) and will continue to be that way under IMBA. The state board has always had more of an administrative role. The two different roles are necessary so that the chapters aren't burdened with the tasks that have been wearing on the state board for so many years. If they were, they wouldn't be able to attend to local advocacy. It will be the same way with IMBA. The IMBA chapters will continue with local advocacy, IMBA will handle the administrative responsibilities, and the state board will take on a more focused role of state advocacy such as legislation, like the recent legislation that would have opened our trails to horses had our advocacy director and lobbyist not intervened with the help of your letters. We plan to continue the website and the newsletter, but we will be able to streamline things a bit.

[ihateplaindave]

"We have a problem of no executive director - and we are looking at solutions. This is one option that's being pursued.

The MMBA State Board has been bogged down with administrative tasks over the past few years: emergency insurance issues, newsletter/publication creation and distribution, merchandise/store management, job descriptions, waiver creation and retention policies ... and so on ...

As board members, we're hardly qualified for the work we've been doing over the past few years and this is one solution to that problem. We would essentially be lifting that administrative burden from our shoulders as volunteers and put it on the shoulders of the professionals who have it down to a science. This would leave the "state" with more mental and physical bandwidth to dedicate to things like: trail school, cps, land manager relations, state-wide events/festivals, etc .. "

Um... Why not hire an Executive Director? Keeps it local. Takes a lot of the time pressure off the volunteers. We end up doing job creation in MI and spending the $$ locally.

[dirt]

"We have a problem of no executive director - and we are looking at solutions. This is one option that's being pursued.

The MMBA State Board has been bogged down with administrative tasks over the past few years: emergency insurance issues, newsletter/publication creation and distribution, merchandise/store management, job descriptions, waiver creation and retention policies ... and so on ...

As board members, we're hardly qualified for the work we've been doing over the past few years and this is one solution to that problem. We would essentially be lifting that administrative burden from our shoulders as volunteers and put it on the shoulders of the professionals who have it down to a science. This would leave the "state" with more mental and physical bandwidth to dedicate to things like: trail school, cps, land manager relations, state-wide events/festivals, etc .. "

Um... Why not hire an Executive Director? Keeps it local. Takes a lot of the time pressure off the volunteers. We end up doing job creation in MI and spending the $$ locally.

Not really. The ED still needs to be managed, which puts the State Board into the position of being an employer and and manager too. Plus, frankly, we cannot afford a full time ED, and a part-time ED just doesn't seem to work anymore. The last ED we had often complained of too much to do with too little time to do it.

What we can easily afford is too little, and what we need is more expensive then we can afford. Keep in mind that currently, the income off membership is in the $40-50K range. Total. Take away the 25% that goes to the chapters, and you can quickly see how much is left.

[Nelg]

"We have a problem of no executive director - and we are looking at solutions. This is one option that's being pursued.

The MMBA State Board has been bogged down with administrative tasks over the past few years: emergency insurance issues, newsletter/publication creation and distribution, merchandise/store management, job descriptions, waiver creation and retention policies ... and so on ...

As board members, we're hardly qualified for the work we've been doing over the past few years and this is one solution to that problem. We would essentially be lifting that administrative burden from our shoulders as volunteers and put it on the shoulders of the professionals who have it down to a science. This would leave the "state" with more mental and physical bandwidth to dedicate to things like: trail school, cps, land manager relations, state-wide events/festivals, etc .. "

Um... Why not hire an Executive Director? Keeps it local. Takes a lot of the time pressure off the volunteers. We end up doing job creation in MI and spending the $$ locally.

$20k a year for a part time ED, $40k+ for a full time one, $15k a year for insurance, pretty soon you are talking real money. Assuming we average $35 per member for dues we are looking at $49,000 in revenue from 1400 members. The chapters get 25% of that so now you are down to $36,750. That money barely covers the fixed expense for a part time ED and a huge insurance bill. So now you are looking at having to fund raise, sell sponsorships or drive membership up well in the 2000+ members range to cover any programs beyond just keeping the lights on. And we need the local and state level of the MMBA to flourish and grow, not just hang on by a thread.

IMBA has dedicated full time resources to run the business side and they can provide a level of service to the chapters that we simply cannot unless we have enough revenue to support it.

[pfox90]

Chris,

I should have stated that the goals or mission of the group currently were hard to pin done because they seemed to be very numerous. I was not looking for the mission statement I found that myself. What I was talking about was more what is the MMBA focused on at this point. Your honesty as to the fragmented nature of things was very helpful.

My one question is why are you putting the cart before the horse. For all intents and purposes if the chapters leave MMBA to become IMBA chapters then what role is the MMBA playing. To a lot of people this should have been figured out before putting it to the chapters to join up with IMBA. The idea that an entity that has accomplished so much may just disappear is disheartening at best and makes people angry at worst. While I understand that a lot of the issues of trail maintenance and construction happen at the chapter level, the big picture stuff happens at the state level and I wonder how IMBA, with their limited resources and manpower are really going to be able to support state level issues. If the chapters are no longer part of MMBA then where does state level manpower and financing come from.

Again I know the board is worn out and would like to just go ride their bikes. I am not trying to start anything, I am just trying to fill in some blanks that after 22 pages I still have.

Thanks.

I know it is a lot to read, but read this whole thread. I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll say it again. The MMBA is not going anywhere. There will still be a state-level organization that will be dealing with state-wide advocacy issues. The state level manpower will still come from the same place as it does now. Current MMBA chapters will still be part of the state-wide MMBA, but the big benefit is many of the other cycling groups (Cherry Capital Cycling Club, Copper Harbor, Marquette, etc.) across the state may join with MMBA now.

This has been said throughout the entire thread your right. What I gather from this is the MMBA should still being functioning on the state level advocacy as it has always done. By joining the IMBA you gather funds from organizations affiliated through them. The short version: joining the IMBA is a money grab to help give the state more dollars, but the MMBA will still be a fully-fledged, functioning organization.*

*In theory

[dauber76]

Chris,

I should have stated that the goals or mission of the group currently were hard to pin done because they seemed to be very numerous. I was not looking for the mission statement I found that myself. What I was talking about was more what is the MMBA focused on at this point. Your honesty as to the fragmented nature of things was very helpful.

My one question is why are you putting the cart before the horse. For all intents and purposes if the chapters leave MMBA to become IMBA chapters then what role is the MMBA playing. To a lot of people this should have been figured out before putting it to the chapters to join up with IMBA. The idea that an entity that has accomplished so much may just disappear is disheartening at best and makes people angry at worst. While I understand that a lot of the issues of trail maintenance and construction happen at the chapter level, the big picture stuff happens at the state level and I wonder how IMBA, with their limited resources and manpower are really going to be able to support state level issues. If the chapters are no longer part of MMBA then where does state level manpower and financing come from.

Again I know the board is worn out and would like to just go ride their bikes. I am not trying to start anything, I am just trying to fill in some blanks that after 22 pages I still have.

Thanks.

I know it is a lot to read, but read this whole thread. I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll say it again. The MMBA is not going anywhere. There will still be a state-level organization that will be dealing with state-wide advocacy issues. The state level manpower will still come from the same place as it does now. Current MMBA chapters will still be part of the state-wide MMBA, but the big benefit is many of the other cycling groups (Cherry Capital Cycling Club, Copper Harbor, Marquette, etc.) across the state may join with MMBA now.

This has been said throughout the entire thread your right. What I gather from this is the MMBA should still being functioning on the state level advocacy as it has always done. By joining the IMBA you gather funds from organizations affiliated through them. The short version: joining the IMBA is a money grab to help give the state more dollars, but the MMBA will still be a fully-fledged, functioning organization.*

*In theory

Not at all. Joining IMBA takes away much of the administrative overhead, leaving more time for the MMBA to function as a state-wide organization focusing on advocacy. Consequently, the more members you have, the more "power" your organization have. This isn't about money, it is about being an effective organization.

[Nelg]

This totally isn't a money grab, right now only 25% of dues go back to a chapter, under IMBA, chapters would get 40% and their goal is to get to a 50/50 split between IMBA and the chapter. IMBA has paid professionals who know how to properly run and manage a 501c and can do a much better job helping the chapters than the volunteer based state board can.

Thanks for the correction Di!

[Di_bear]

501(c)(3)

Yeah...the chapters will hopefully get more money, but the state will not be receiving funds from IMBA. That's the part we have to figure out: how to raise money for the state projects.

[pfox90]

I didn't say money grab in a bad way? Nor did I say it was the only reason. Obviously I'd like my chapter to have more money to help fund the trails better. I don't see it as a bad thing at all.

[Di_bear]

I didn't say money grab in a bad way?

I don't think any of us took it that way. We were just setting the record straight.