Lowered pressures

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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby b_b » May 28th, 2013, 9:12 am

mr_opjones wrote:Correct, also they have tubeless, in which the benefits are still there.

Yep dirt bikes can run tubes, tubeless, foam inserts, or "tire balls"! However weight is less of an issue with a 40+hp engine and I rarely flatted with tubes since tires are much thicker than mtb tires. If I did flat it was usually a front pinch from too low psi. I'd run around 13psi front to avoid pinch flats but still get decent traction. I'd still say they're apples and oranges since one is 25# 0hp engine and the other is 220# 40+hp engine. :)
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby mr_opjones » May 28th, 2013, 9:17 am

iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
bikerector wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:I wonder why Cars do not have tubes in the wheels.

I wondered when opjones would come in with an empty useless comment to add to the discussion. I mean, because you're comparing apples to apples right?


Absolutely it's apples to apples. Take the philosophy of a car tyre and scale it down to your bike, take your opinion out of it and look at the hard facts and you will see the benefits.


Dirt bikes use tubes. Now the apples are at least the same color, just different size and flavor.

:icon_scratch:


Correct, also they have tubeless, in which the benefits are still there.



List the benefits.....oh, wait you can't.


You are capable of using google just as I am, no need to copy and paste.


Exactly, you can not list actual measurable benefits of running the tires tubed or tubeless, there are none. I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway. Just another empty one liner.


Pinch flat, weight, friction, varying pressure, and that's common sense without searching.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby balexander87 » May 28th, 2013, 9:23 am

iamkickstand wrote:
c0nsumer wrote:I personally have experienced better puncture resistance (demonstrated with a thorn) and no pinch flats (I'd usually get 2-3 per year)...

You personally experienced that, but can you show some scientific testing in exacting conditions day in and day out to prove this? ...


It would depend on how many years he went getting 2-3 pinch flats per year and how many years since switching to tubeless that he's gone without a pinch flat (maybe we should include burped tires since it is technically impossible to "pinch flat" without a tube, right?), but I'd say that if there were at least 3 years on either side of the transition to tubeless, that's a pretty strong correlation. Granted, "correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'." (thank you XKCD!!)

My conclusion: tubeless has benefits and drawbacks. Tubed has benefits and drawbacks. Those benefits and drawbacks are different for each rider due to differences in setup, riding style, etc. Some of those benefits can be "scientifically proven" (hard to pinch flat without a tube... but then you can burp a tire, right?) some are purely subjective. Some of those benefits are exaggerated, some are not, some do not apply to every rider in every situation. If what you've got works, great. If it doesn't there's another option out there that might be worth trying (not necessarily referring just to switching from tubed to tubeless. I'm sure there are cases where the opposite is called for.)

Personally, I run tubed right now, but I'm looking into a new wheelset, and it will be tubeless compatible. I don't have any plans on switching right away, but I would like to have the option to try it if I ever want to.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby b_b » May 28th, 2013, 9:27 am

iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.


..how to make friends and influence people...
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 9:31 am

balexander87 wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
c0nsumer wrote:I personally have experienced better puncture resistance (demonstrated with a thorn) and no pinch flats (I'd usually get 2-3 per year)...

You personally experienced that, but can you show some scientific testing in exacting conditions day in and day out to prove this? ...


It would depend on how many years he went getting 2-3 pinch flats per year and how many years since switching to tubeless that he's gone without a pinch flat (maybe we should include burped tires since it is technically impossible to "pinch flat" without a tube, right?), but I'd say that if there were at least 3 years on either side of the transition to tubeless, that's a pretty strong correlation. Granted, "correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'." (thank you XKCD!!)

My conclusion: tubeless has benefits and drawbacks. Tubed has benefits and drawbacks. Those benefits and drawbacks are different for each rider due to differences in setup, riding style, etc. Some of those benefits can be "scientifically proven" (hard to pinch flat without a tube... but then you can burp a tire, right?) some are purely subjective. Some of those benefits are exaggerated, some are not, some do not apply to every rider in every situation. If what you've got works, great. If it doesn't there's another option out there that might be worth trying (not necessarily referring just to switching from tubed to tubeless. I'm sure there are cases where the opposite is called for.)

Personally, I run tubed right now, but I'm looking into a new wheelset, and it will be tubeless compatible. I don't have any plans on switching right away, but I would like to have the option to try it if I ever want to.

Agreed.

There was a time I used to get at least 5-6 pinch flats or flats in general (I never really spent much time determining what "type" of flat I had gotten) each year. I went tubeless for a bit, switched back to tube, never got any "thorn" or other "puncture" type flats, but did have a few burping issues. Switched back to tubes, no flats. (I have had a couple DH riding, but they were with XC tubes) So it could also be said that his riding style or his luck may have changed.....

Either way, I agree with you, they both have some advantages, but they are hard to quantify, hard to prove, and come down to preference more than much else.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 9:34 am

b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.


..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 9:36 am

mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
bikerector wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:I wonder why Cars do not have tubes in the wheels.

I wondered when opjones would come in with an empty useless comment to add to the discussion. I mean, because you're comparing apples to apples right?


Absolutely it's apples to apples. Take the philosophy of a car tyre and scale it down to your bike, take your opinion out of it and look at the hard facts and you will see the benefits.


Dirt bikes use tubes. Now the apples are at least the same color, just different size and flavor.

:icon_scratch:


Correct, also they have tubeless, in which the benefits are still there.



List the benefits.....oh, wait you can't.


You are capable of using google just as I am, no need to copy and paste.


Exactly, you can not list actual measurable benefits of running the tires tubed or tubeless, there are none. I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway. Just another empty one liner.


Pinch flat, weight, friction, varying pressure, and that's common sense without searching.

Good try, but pinch flat = burping, they both have some sort of issue.
weight = Not a measurable difference in most cases as already posted about by others in this thread.
varying pressure=not even sure what you are trying to say. I know I know, if I was as smart as you I would already know what kind of crap you were spewing.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby b_b » May 28th, 2013, 9:38 am

iamkickstand wrote:
b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.

..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.

Oops I read that as "all you people". :) Carry on....
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby balexander87 » May 28th, 2013, 9:42 am

iamkickstand wrote:
b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.


..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.


I'm reminded of another thread that precipitated into a similar state. basically, if you have a username that is Mr[insert something here], you are just setting yourself up :mrgreen:

iamkickstand wrote:I enjoy being juvenile, it makes for 6 pages of entertainment.

Some days I think it some of you guys take this internet thing a bit serious, then there's days I realize just how easy it is to get some of you all in a tizzy, and then there's the days I wonder why none of you are able to have fun in life, and thats when I realize I'm taking the internet too seriously, but....this thread, very very serious bizness.


Not complaining! I agree, it is quite entertaining!
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 9:43 am

b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.

..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.

Oops I read that as "all you people". :) Carry on....

No, so far I enjoy all of the people I have met on this forum (Tim just seems to have a bone to pick, and thats fine).
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby mr_opjones » May 28th, 2013, 9:44 am

iamkickstand wrote:List the benefits


iamkickstand wrote:can you show some scientific


mr_opjones wrote:Pinch flat, weight, friction, varying pressure, and that's common sense without searching.



iamkickstand wrote:Good try, but pinch flat = burping, they both have some sort of issue.


Not scientifically the same


iamkickstand wrote:weight = Not a measurable difference in most cases as already posted about by others in this thread.



Wow, something Science cannot measure, let me contact mensa for your application

iamkickstand wrote:varying pressure=not even sure what you are trying to say. I know I know, if I was as smart as you I would already know what kind of crap you were spewing.



Science facial
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!

Replace Why with How
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby mr_opjones » May 28th, 2013, 9:45 am

iamkickstand wrote:
b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.


..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.


This hurts, i never said i didn't like you, you just post nonsense that I correct.
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!

Replace Why with How
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 9:59 am

mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:
b_b wrote:
iamkickstand wrote: I never figured you of all people could actually come up with an original thought of your own anyway.


..how to make friends and influence people...

I wasn't aware that I was here to make friends with mr oneliner empty post. He doesn't have to like me, it's quite clear by many of his posts that he doesn't. I'm fine with that.


This hurts, i never said i didn't like you, you just post nonsense that I correct.



You still haven't actually posted anything that you yourself can prove. Which, won't happen.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby iamkickstand » May 28th, 2013, 10:01 am

mr_opjones wrote:
iamkickstand wrote:List the benefits


iamkickstand wrote:can you show some scientific


mr_opjones wrote:Pinch flat, weight, friction, varying pressure, and that's common sense without searching.



iamkickstand wrote:Good try, but pinch flat = burping, they both have some sort of issue.


Not scientifically the same, You're right, not the same, but the result is the same, which is really all that matters in this discussion.


iamkickstand wrote:weight = Not a measurable difference in most cases as already posted about by others in this thread.



Wow, something Science cannot measure, let me contact mensa for your applicationPull your head out of your ass. A tube and a tire, vs a ust tire and sealant, not enough of a difference to matter.

iamkickstand wrote:varying pressure=not even sure what you are trying to say. I know I know, if I was as smart as you I would already know what kind of crap you were spewing.



Science facial

You got me there, you're so much smarter than the rest of us. I forgot you can only put one tire pressure in a tubed tire, and you can vary the pressure in a tubeless tire. Again, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, so you are clearly posting less nonsense.
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Re: Lowered pressures

Postby mr_opjones » May 28th, 2013, 10:05 am

Science proves that going tubeless is beneficial. But at what cost, time and level is it justified to do so, that is the preference.
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