Cardio Conundrum

Where to ask questions on riding skills, training, nutrition, and bike repair

Cardio Conundrum

Postby iamkickstand » May 3rd, 2013, 8:38 am

Cardio has never been my strong point.

Over the winter I wanted to get my cardio up, but I hate to ride in the cold.

"My" cardio goals were focused around DH runs/races. At resorts that's a 5-10 minute sprint down, 10-15 minute ride up. All day, typically logging somewhere around 15 runs or so. Hike a bike days, well, you get the idea. Races are a 5 minute sprint.

"That" type of cardio feels great so far this year.

My running, which has been a tool used to up my cardio on the treadmill and on nice days throughout the winter is way up. I have a very hilly 2.7 mile loop by my house that I run a quick lap on 2-3 times a week and I have dropped 5 minutes off my time there since the first of the year.

But, I am sucking so much wind on the trails....is it just a matter of being too early in the season and I just need to get more miles in, or is the running hurting my biking?
iamkickstand
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:00 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby mr_opjones » May 3rd, 2013, 8:50 am

Are you comparing rides from last year, or are you saying in general that your XC cardio is poor?
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!!

Replace Why with How
User avatar
mr_opjones
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: November 22nd, 2004, 2:43 pm
Location: Rochester Hills

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby ColorVoyeur » May 3rd, 2013, 8:52 am

Just ride your bike buddy. There is no substitute for saddle time.
No Dig, No Ride
User avatar
ColorVoyeur
 
Posts: 526
Joined: June 7th, 2009, 1:56 pm
Location: The Cosmos

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby iamkickstand » May 3rd, 2013, 8:54 am

Comparing how I feel on the trail. I don't typically time my rides.
iamkickstand
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:00 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby Critter7r » May 3rd, 2013, 8:54 am

As you preform more of an activity, your mucsle memory improves. As that happens, your muscles become more efficient at the type of activity you throw at it. Now you're giving it a different activity to perform that employs different muscles and uses them in different ways. So it's going to take a little time for your muscles to learn this new level and type of activity.

Also, you're probably pushing yourself harder than you would during a typical spring, because you've been working out, so your brain is telling you that you "should be" able to go faster.
<> Chris <>
I live in Holly & ride my '02 FSR 26'er '09 Trek Fuel 26'er at Holdridge.
Critter7r
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: November 9th, 2010, 4:24 pm

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby irishpitbull » May 3rd, 2013, 10:03 am

Critter7r wrote:As you preform more of an activity, your mucsle memory improves. As that happens, your muscles become more efficient at the type of activity you throw at it. Now you're giving it a different activity to perform that employs different muscles and uses them in different ways. So it's going to take a little time for your muscles to learn this new level and type of activity.

Also, you're probably pushing yourself harder than you would during a typical spring, because you've been working out, so your brain is telling you that you "should be" able to go faster.



^This
14 S-Works Epic
14 Yeti ARC-C
13 CruX Expert Carbon Disc
15 Borealis Echo Carbondale
irishpitbull
 
Posts: 1082
Joined: August 8th, 2011, 1:16 pm
Location: Plymouth, MI

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby utabintarbo » May 3rd, 2013, 10:04 am

Critter7r wrote:As you preform more of an activity, your mucsle memory improves. As that happens, your muscles become more efficient at the type of activity you throw at it. Now you're giving it a different activity to perform that employs different muscles and uses them in different ways. So it's going to take a little time for your muscles to learn this new level and type of activity.

Also, you're probably pushing yourself harder than you would during a typical spring, because you've been working out, so your brain is telling you that you "should be" able to go faster.


QFT.

Also, why no riding in the cold? It's extremely refreshing, and once you get used to how little clothes you really have to wear, it's not all that much more of an investment. Granted, the venues are often more limited, but you can still get quite a workout and not lose that "muscle memory".

As a practical example, last year's relative snow-free winter offered an inordinate amount of opportunities to get out and ride. As a result, I was in near-mid-season form (such as it is) for the Barry Roubaix at the end of March. I just marched right into the season without missing a beat (until the back problems started later - different story).

Give it another chance.
User avatar
utabintarbo
 
Posts: 5760
Joined: June 21st, 2007, 12:29 pm

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby iamkickstand » May 3rd, 2013, 11:28 am

utabintarbo wrote:
Critter7r wrote:As you preform more of an activity, your mucsle memory improves. As that happens, your muscles become more efficient at the type of activity you throw at it. Now you're giving it a different activity to perform that employs different muscles and uses them in different ways. So it's going to take a little time for your muscles to learn this new level and type of activity.

Also, you're probably pushing yourself harder than you would during a typical spring, because you've been working out, so your brain is telling you that you "should be" able to go faster.


QFT.

Also, why no riding in the cold? It's extremely refreshing, and once you get used to how little clothes you really have to wear, it's not all that much more of an investment. Granted, the venues are often more limited, but you can still get quite a workout and not lose that "muscle memory".

As a practical example, last year's relative snow-free winter offered an inordinate amount of opportunities to get out and ride. As a result, I was in near-mid-season form (such as it is) for the Barry Roubaix at the end of March. I just marched right into the season without missing a beat (until the back problems started later - different story).

Give it another chance.

Because I don't enjoy it.

First post, second sentence.
iamkickstand
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:00 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby iamkickstand » May 3rd, 2013, 11:29 am

Critter7r wrote:As you preform more of an activity, your mucsle memory improves. As that happens, your muscles become more efficient at the type of activity you throw at it. Now you're giving it a different activity to perform that employs different muscles and uses them in different ways. So it's going to take a little time for your muscles to learn this new level and type of activity.
Also, you're probably pushing yourself harder than you would during a typical spring, because you've been working out, so your brain is telling you that you "should be" able to go faster.

This seems most logical.
iamkickstand
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:00 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby Brent » May 3rd, 2013, 11:58 am

Much of your problem comes from aerobic vs anaerobic activity, the same reason a sprinter doesn't prepare for a 100m dash by running marathons. You need to build your explosive power for DH runs, and base level cardio doesn't really provide that. On the up side your sweat equity in base cardio has made your body much more efficient over all, and you probably recover from getting winded much more quickly. Your downhill run make take 5-10 minutes from top to bottom, but you are actually expending your energy in short bursts throughout the run, not equally over the entire run like you are when you go out for a jog. So your focus should be explosive energy depleting intervals of up to a minute, with recovery periods. That will help train your muscles that they need to store more glucose in the muscle and less in fat, or free floating in the body.
User avatar
Brent
 
Posts: 132
Joined: October 13th, 2006, 1:05 pm
Location: Mulliken, MI

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby iamkickstand » May 3rd, 2013, 1:07 pm

Brent wrote:Much of your problem comes from aerobic vs anaerobic activity, the same reason a sprinter doesn't prepare for a 100m dash by running marathons. You need to build your explosive power for DH runs, and base level cardio doesn't really provide that. On the up side your sweat equity in base cardio has made your body much more efficient over all, and you probably recover from getting winded much more quickly. Your downhill run make take 5-10 minutes from top to bottom, but you are actually expending your energy in short bursts throughout the run, not equally over the entire run like you are when you go out for a jog. So your focus should be explosive energy depleting intervals of up to a minute, with recovery periods. That will help train your muscles that they need to store more glucose in the muscle and less in fat, or free floating in the body.

My Cardio is good on DH runs. As you mentioned short bursts, sprints, etc.
My cardio is good on DH runs all day, my muscle endurance throughout the day is good.
My steady state cardio running is good, the 2.7 mile loop I typically run is very hilly, no long flat sections at all.
My XC cardio is what is struggling. I expected it to be a bit higher this spring than it currently is. I think Critter nailed it though with the muscles just not used to being used on the XC bike yet.
iamkickstand
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:00 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby 300hp » May 3rd, 2013, 9:18 pm

Typically I don't have great cardio, despite logging a good (60-100 wk) amount of miles on the bike. Part of that is some genetic stuff, part meds, and part is that I don't specifically "train" on xc rides.

This season, I've been doing something I never have before, working in a good long slow distance ride or two every week. 3+ hrs at a consistant pace.

So far, so good. Building a fitness base has been working well for me, and appears to be what you're missing in your routine. Go fix up your parents bikes and have an after work dirt road ride once a week or so, and watch your improvement. It won't take too long.
300hp
 
Posts: 839
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 4:16 pm
Location: acedeuce

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby b_b » May 3rd, 2013, 10:42 pm

You can't take 4 months off and maintain even if you do other stuff. You need to ride/spin/trainer or else go backwards.
b_b
 
Posts: 2040
Joined: May 30th, 2010, 9:55 am

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby Roy » May 4th, 2013, 7:05 am

Test your over all condition by checking you heart rate drop at the top of the same hill on every ride. If you drop 30 or 40 beats in a minute, forget about it and ride.
If you only drop 10 beats in 2 minutes , think about seeing a doctor.
Any drop between 20 and 30 you are on your way to improved cardio.

Roy
User avatar
Roy
 
Posts: 1578
Joined: August 14th, 2002, 9:04 pm

Re: Cardio Conundrum

Postby drmoorejr » May 8th, 2013, 7:12 am

iamkickstand wrote:
Brent wrote:Much of your problem comes from aerobic vs anaerobic activity, the same reason a sprinter doesn't prepare for a 100m dash by running marathons. You need to build your explosive power for DH runs, and base level cardio doesn't really provide that. On the up side your sweat equity in base cardio has made your body much more efficient over all, and you probably recover from getting winded much more quickly. Your downhill run make take 5-10 minutes from top to bottom, but you are actually expending your energy in short bursts throughout the run, not equally over the entire run like you are when you go out for a jog. So your focus should be explosive energy depleting intervals of up to a minute, with recovery periods. That will help train your muscles that they need to store more glucose in the muscle and less in fat, or free floating in the body.

My Cardio is good on DH runs. As you mentioned short bursts, sprints, etc.
My cardio is good on DH runs all day, my muscle endurance throughout the day is good.
My steady state cardio running is good, the 2.7 mile loop I typically run is very hilly, no long flat sections at all.
My XC cardio is what is struggling. I expected it to be a bit higher this spring than it currently is. I think Critter nailed it though with the muscles just not used to being used on the XC bike yet.

Not the same thing. Those bursts down hill are almost comparable to lifting weights, then resting, then lifting, then resting even if its an active "rest". Riding down hill I am assuming you are not using the wattage that you are in the up hills... or the effort in the pedals. You need to build up the endurance in the leg muscles by riding longer, and of course making sure you have recovery time. Do some back road rides, then finish up in some single track, then ride back home.
--

Live Free or Die.
User avatar
drmoorejr
 
Posts: 1558
Joined: March 30th, 2005, 9:25 pm

Next

Return to Tips, Training & Techniques

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests