need advise on wheels

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need advise on wheels

Postby jeepskate » April 28th, 2013, 10:09 pm

So I guess first off I ride short travel 26 wheeled headshok cannondales, one ss and one geared. I am having a lot of trouble keeping wheels alive, especially on the ss. Here is a list of carnage all from the past year or so. I am 6ft, 145 lbs running tubes for the most part.

Easton one ss: bent rear rim, smoked rear bearings all within two rides on poto.

Xt/mavic 717 combo ran ss: I did buy this set used, but in good condition. Pulled three nipples out of the rim and folded a sidewall over yesterday. Maybe five rides by me, can't imagine many more by the p.o.

Xtr/crest combo: these ones have given me nothing but trouble since day one. Have been professionally trued several times ( rear) and torn down and re stressed twice. Have many rides on these ones, but they need re trued every couple rides.

Is this what I get for buying higher end parts, or am I doing something wrong? Maybe I need to get a set of freeride wheels for my cross country bikes? Any advise would be great. Mike
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby c0nsumer » April 28th, 2013, 10:14 pm

Maybe you just ride hard? It's also hard to say with used stuff...

I can say that I'm not particularly careful, but I'm also not a terribly hard rider either, and I've had great luck with Velocity Blunt SL rims, Salsa Semi rims (discontinued but still available), and the DT Swiss 470s that came on an older bike. All were on pretty well built wheels that had a lot of time spent destressing them and fiddling with them before fitting them to a bike. After that I mostly just clomp over whatever, most mindful of trying to avoid pinch flats or denting the rim when set up tubeless.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby Roy » April 29th, 2013, 6:53 am

You did not say what air pressure you run in your tires or what kind of rear hub. ( older C'Dale cartridge bearings had problems)

Try running max pressure for a while. You will soon adjust to the small loss of traction. ( the tire is part of the wheel structural system )

Before every ride make sure all the spokes are tight and check the wheel bearings by pulling outward on rim or spokes. If you feel any play, adjust the bearings before your ride.

If this does not work for you, buy some heavy duty rims and down hill tires. Heavy duty down hill tires weigh a lot more, but give back a lot of side to side control.

If you are running Head Sox fatty's drop the air pressure a little. ( not less then 145psi) A little extra sag will not hurt. The C'Dale valving will still suck up the big hits at Poto.

Finally, allow the bike to float under you on the Poto's rocky down hill runs.

Keep trying different fixes - it is a learning process. When you are done you will be smarter then anybody that gave you advise.

Roy
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby ibisman » April 29th, 2013, 6:57 am

Yep, Blunts or loaded AM/FR rims are stronger than most. I have 10's of thousands of miles on WTB laser disc lite hubs. I just saw some on ebay last night from the same guyI bought mine from for $105 ..that's $200 dollars off. And I have been using 2mm spokes on the last 6 pair of wheels I built.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby b_b » April 29th, 2013, 7:07 am

Based on your past history you were asking for trouble with Crest's since they're a weight-weenie race wheel. I know some run them all the time, but not for you. :) I have Mavic 717 on FS bike and they've been just fine. Yeah maybe you need AM wheels or at least double-wall and eyelets, but I think Mavic 717 meets that criteria. :( I think the wider AM rims are pretty cool though.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby Critter7r » April 29th, 2013, 7:35 am

I'm no expert or super hard rider, but my mavic 223s lasted 8 years. I trued them once and had to replace them becasue the bearing race surfaces flaked apart, making the wheel buzz. I've ran about 30psi in my 2.0 wide tires forever.

As for folding over a sidewall on a wheel, I'd guess that you're running quite a bit less pressure than me, or you smashed into a rock.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby Leroi Brown » April 29th, 2013, 9:40 am

I have had stellar luck with Mavic Crossmax SL's and SLR's.....I have literally put thousands of miles on both sets of these wheels with no issues. I've ridden them in CO several times, Moab, NC, VT, and everywhere in between. I've raced then hard, and they just keep taking the abuse! I'm not overweight, but I'm not light either!!
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby meangreen » April 29th, 2013, 10:59 am

Just because they were trued, doesn't mean they were tensioned properly. For example, I bent a rim pretty badly on vacation in NC last year, but was able to get it trued-up well enough to keep riding for our last day. It held up, but the the uneven tension eventually started pulling the nipples through the eylets.

I've also learned the hard way that line choice and the lifespan of your wheels are closely related :oops:
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby jeepskate » April 29th, 2013, 11:16 am

thanks for the info guys. i do understand that i ride the more technical trails in the area, and anyone who rides with me knows i wont back down from a hard line or drop. that being said i usually run 28 psi front with a 2.3 or larger tire and 30 to 32 rear with a 2.2. i do check bearings before every ride, right after i check that my bb7"s are dialed in. the xtr/ crests were my first high end wheelset, everything has been down hill from there. when i take my wheels in they are generally trued and tension checked right in front of me, so i know my shop is definitly not at fault.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby jeepskate » April 29th, 2013, 11:20 am

Roy wrote:You did not say what air pressure you run in your tires or what kind of rear hub. ( older C'Dale cartridge bearings had problems)

Try running max pressure for a while. You will soon adjust to the small loss of traction. ( the tire is part of the wheel structural system )

Before every ride make sure all the spokes are tight and check the wheel bearings by pulling outward on rim or spokes. If you feel any play, adjust the bearings before your ride.

If this does not work for you, buy some heavy duty rims and down hill tires. Heavy duty down hill tires weigh a lot more, but give back a lot of side to side control.

If you are running Head Sox fatty's drop the air pressure a little. ( not less then 145psi) A little extra sag will not hurt. The C'Dale valving will still suck up the big hits at Poto.

Finally, allow the bike to float under you on the Poto's rocky down hill runs.

Keep trying different fixes - it is a learning process. When you are done you will be smarter then anybody that gave you advise.

Roy



thanks roy. my headshoks are in the shop every spring and get a "custom" blend of oil weight for my size. generally i run 125 130 psi in the fork and have had no issues with the front wheels. on poto if im not floating im flying, propably part of the issue here but usually my tension problems develop on the brake side.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby centralRH » April 29th, 2013, 11:35 am

I'm guessing the Eastons were low spoke count, plus they have been known to have hub issues.
Mavic 717's was probably a wheel build problem.

Lace the XTRs to a minimum Stan's Arch EX. Better yet, some WTB Frequency i23s or i25s (when available). The Crests are going to be way too soft for your style of riding.
I'm guessing you are getting tension issues on the brake side because of the soft Crests. Those rims cannot be built with high enough tension on the non-drive side for your style of riding.

XTRs with i23s with double butted spokes and even tension should do the trick.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby CraveSingletrack » April 30th, 2013, 10:02 am

Interesting. I was talking to one of the fastest elite racers in the state, and he runs a racegold on the front and crest on the rear usually. He's 170-180lbs and INSANELY fast. I have had zero issues on my crests thus far, and I'm around 180lbs. I don't ride them daily tho, I run them part time, and when I have a decent gap in between races I put my mustangs back on.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby c0nsumer » April 30th, 2013, 10:06 am

kyleRIG29er wrote:Interesting. I was talking to one of the fastest elite racers in the state, and he runs a racegold on the front and crest on the rear usually. He's 170-180lbs and INSANELY fast. I have had zero issues on my crests thus far, and I'm around 180lbs. I don't ride them daily tho, I run them part time, and when I have a decent gap in between races I put my mustangs back on.


He (and you) may also be WAY better at picking smooth lines and letting the bike float around under you.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby jfactor! » May 2nd, 2013, 11:25 am

c0nsumer wrote:
kyleRIG29er wrote:Interesting. I was talking to one of the fastest elite racers in the state, and he runs a racegold on the front and crest on the rear usually. He's 170-180lbs and INSANELY fast. I have had zero issues on my crests thus far, and I'm around 180lbs. I don't ride them daily tho, I run them part time, and when I have a decent gap in between races I put my mustangs back on.


He (and you) may also be WAY better at picking smooth lines and letting the bike float around under you.

My thought exactly.
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Re: need advise on wheels

Postby bones » May 2nd, 2013, 11:56 am

jeepskate wrote:So I guess first off I ride short travel 26 wheeled headshok cannondales, one ss and one geared. I am having a lot of trouble keeping wheels alive, especially on the ss. Here is a list of carnage all from the past year or so. I am 6ft, 145 lbs running tubes for the most part.


I have the exact same setup as you - 2 C'dale HT 26ers with headshocks, one is a geared carbon Taurine, cira 2007-ish, the other an older alloy F600 set up as an SS with a tensioner. The Taurine has a newly rebuilt 80mm HS that works well, and the old 80mm HS on the SS has been rebuilt multiple times and barely does a thing. I've raced and ridden both of these bike for 8+ years and have never had any wheel issues aside from rider error crashes. I'm 5'5" and low 140's. The Taurine has a set of old Stans 7000 rims (very flimsy) with tubes, and I run 18psi. The SS has some old Ritchey WCS wheels on it, not sure if they even match, and has some really old 2.2 something rubber on it - run at 18psi as well. Very rarely flat either bike.

Sounds like you may be riding "heavy" and smashing things. Try to lighten it up. Might also want to look into 2.2's, as they give you more cushion, control, and can be run really low PSI, even with tubes.
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